|
Post by Wicked Cricket on Dec 5, 2023 12:00:37 GMT
SP,
It’s possible for a smaller county to overcome the odds temporarily but incredibly difficult to sustain that.
You make an interesting point.
There are exceptions to the rule. Somerset is one, who have constructed revenue streams over recent years which has allowed the club to consistently compete in the top tier. I always look at this county as an inspiration for Sussex, but one which our club has failed to emulate.
The key to success is to hold on to this resonance when it occurs. Sussex has spectacularly failed to achieve this, as Rob Andrew pointed out when he first became CEO. You need those at the helm to build on success, then hang on to it, and never let it go. After David Green stepped down as Chair in 2008, the club struggled, a steady decline occurred, and then Andrew offered the coup de grâce.
Imho, you require two things.
1: An Understanding of Success.
Those in charge must first understand success, can attract it to a club, and then hold on to this highly sought after commodity. In football, a recent example being Manchester City. A club who slid from success into failure and then like a phoenix, has risen to the highest of highs.
No.2: Money.
Money is everything today. Yet, unless you have No.1 in place, it doesn't matter how much finance you throw at a club (e.g. Chelsea), it doesn't necessarily mean success follows.
Sussex have neither qualities.
The only way we can move forward is by having the luck to attract the right CEO to the Club, who can create new revenue streams, while understanding how to lure and then build on the green shoots of success (if they appear).
We need a dynamic, young, up-and-coming business person with much to prove, who can use Sussex to show off their success abilities. Such people are so sought after that once proven, the top companies snap them up, using very high salaries as an inducement.
Imho, there is no-one at Sussex who has the ability to turn our fortunes around and why finding the right CEO is paramount. We need to be extremely lucky.
|
|
|
Post by therealab1 on Dec 5, 2023 12:05:45 GMT
SP, It’s possible for a smaller county to overcome the odds temporarily but incredibly difficult to sustain that.
You make an interesting point. There are exceptions to the rule. Somerset is one, who have constructed revenue streams over recent years which has allowed the club to consistently compete in the top tier. I always look at this county as an inspiration for Sussex, but one which our county has failed to emulate. The key to success is to hold on to this resonance when it occurs. Sussex has spectacularly failed to achieve this, as Rob Andrew pointed out when he first became CEO. You need those at the helm to build on success, then hang on to it, and never let it go. After David Green stepped down as Chair in 2008, the club struggled, a steady decline occurred, and then Andrew offered the coup de grâce. Imho, you require two things. 1: An Understanding of Success.Those in charge must first understand success, can attract it to a club, and then hold on to this highly sought after commodity. In football, a recent example being Manchester City. A club who slid from success into failure and then like a phoenix, has risen to the highest of highs. No.2: Money. Money is everything today. Yet, unless you have No.1 in place, it doesn't matter how much finance you throw at a club (e.g. Chelsea), it doesn't necessarily mean success follows. Sussex have neither qualities. The only way we can move forward is by having the luck to attract the right CEO to the Club, who can create new revenue streams, while understanding how to lure and then build on the green shoots of success (if they appear). We need a dynamic, young, up-and-coming business person with much to prove, who can use Sussex to show off their success abilities. Such people are so sought after that once proven, the top companies snap them up, using very high salaries as an inducement. Imho, there is no-one at Sussex who has the ability to turn our fortunes around and why finding the right CEO is paramount. Interesting example of success, Somerset are considered successful for being consistently in Div 1 yet have only won 7 trophies in their entire history.
|
|
|
Post by Wicked Cricket on Dec 5, 2023 12:22:16 GMT
In my book, a non-TMG, who remains consistently in Division 1 is a success. At present, I cannot see Sussex winning another trophy for a very long time. 2009 was the last time or 2010 if winning Division 2 is viewed as a trophy.
Since 2011, Sussex has steadily declined and during this time, Somerset has won the One-Day Cup (2019) and the T20 (2023). Meanwhile, Somerset has been playing cricket in Division 1 with their highest finish being second, which they achieved in 2010, 2012, 2016, 2018 and 2019.
I know who I would rather be supporting. Each season supporters can watch their team compete against the best clubs in the country.
The primary difference between the two counties, is that those at the Somerset helm understand success and how to attract it.
|
|
|
Post by therealab1 on Dec 5, 2023 12:25:11 GMT
In my book, a non-TMG, and remaining consistently in Division 1 is a success. At present, I cannot see Sussex winning another trophy for a very long time. 2009 was the last time or 2010 if winning Division 2 is viewed as a trophy. Since 2011, Sussex has steadily declined and during this time, Somerset has won the One-Day Cup (2019) and the T20 (2023). Meanwhile, Somerset has been playing cricket in Division 1 with their highest finish being second, which they achieved in 2010, 2012, 2016, 2018 and 2019. I know who I would rather be supporting. Each season supporters can watch their team compete against the best clubs in the country. The primary difference between the two counties, is that those at the Somerset helm understand success. i dont think there is anything successful about maintaining your position in the top flight. Their last trophy was 2005. Since 2009 weve been at the business end of a lot of the white ball tournaments so can we measure that as success? It is fascinating mindset WC one i think probably slightly bruised by recent seasons at Hove i think.
|
|
|
Post by joe on Dec 5, 2023 13:07:03 GMT
In my book, a non-TMG, and remaining consistently in Division 1 is a success. At present, I cannot see Sussex winning another trophy for a very long time. 2009 was the last time or 2010 if winning Division 2 is viewed as a trophy. Since 2011, Sussex has steadily declined and during this time, Somerset has won the One-Day Cup (2019) and the T20 (2023). Meanwhile, Somerset has been playing cricket in Division 1 with their highest finish being second, which they achieved in 2010, 2012, 2016, 2018 and 2019. I know who I would rather be supporting. Each season supporters can watch their team compete against the best clubs in the country. The primary difference between the two counties, is that those at the Somerset helm understand success. i dont think there is anything successful about maintaining your position in the top flight. Their last trophy was 2005. Since 2009 weve been at the business end of a lot of the white ball tournaments so can we measure that as success? It is fascinating mindset WC one i think probably slightly bruised by recent seasons at Hove i think. Of course it’s successful to maintain a Div 1 top spot, it’s what all counties strive for. Supporters are able to watch good cricket with their team winning more games than they lose. A success that attracts the best players, coaches and sponsorships. I can’t think of a single downside of being at the top of Div 1. I would take Sussex being in and competing in Div 1 over winning any cups.
|
|
|
Post by ashingtonmartlet on Dec 5, 2023 13:10:15 GMT
2005? WC lists the trophies they've won - T20 in 2023 and the 50-over competition in 2019.
|
|
|
Post by therealab1 on Dec 5, 2023 13:25:06 GMT
2005? WC lists the trophies they've won - T20 in 2023 and the 50-over competition in 2019. The reliability of Fandom pages! Genuinely fascinated though either way, would you really this season rather win promotion to Div 1 than win the T20 and have that silverware. Its interesting each persons values like that, i remember when Brighton got the FA Cup semi final under Hughton and were battling relegation and the debate then would you rather go down but win the FA Cup! I'd have rather wont he FA Cup. Interesting debate.
|
|
|
Post by therealab1 on Dec 5, 2023 13:25:48 GMT
i dont think there is anything successful about maintaining your position in the top flight. Their last trophy was 2005. Since 2009 weve been at the business end of a lot of the white ball tournaments so can we measure that as success? It is fascinating mindset WC one i think probably slightly bruised by recent seasons at Hove i think. Of course it’s successful to maintain a Div 1 top spot, it’s what all counties strive for. Supporters are able to watch good cricket with their team winning more games than they lose. A success that attracts the best players, coaches and sponsorships. I can’t think of a single downside of being at the top of Div 1. I would take Sussex being in and competing in Div 1 over winning any cups. Im not saying theres a downside just i dont think its the marker of sustained success.
|
|
|
Post by lovelyboy on Dec 5, 2023 13:33:14 GMT
Staying in div 1 for so many years is a fantastic achievement for Somerset
Our current side (before all these signings we keep being promised) is not good enough to get promoted out of div 2 and would get absolutely battered in div 1. We are way behind the likes of Somerset and Essex and we have no excuse to be
|
|
|
Post by therealab1 on Dec 5, 2023 13:35:32 GMT
Staying in div 1 for so many years is a fantastic achievement for Somerset Our current side (before all these signings we keep being promised) is not good enough to get promoted out of div 2 and would get absolutely battered in div 1. We are way behind the likes of Somerset and Essex and we have no excuse to be Thats a fair point, Somerset and Essex should be our markers i agree but i dont think i could class us as a successful county if we just stayed div 1 for 5 seasons + in a row, punching above our weight maybe.
|
|
|
Post by enoughisenough on Dec 5, 2023 14:30:34 GMT
From where we are right now I would think most Sussex members would take being in Div. 1 for any length of time as being Success. It would be an indication that the team has significantly improved. Wallowing as we are in the depths of despair at the club's drift and decline it would be a real morale boost to see the team somehow claw their way into Div 1 in the next couple of seasons. It might not last but it would enable us to be proud of the team again.
|
|
|
Post by squarepoint on Dec 5, 2023 21:01:14 GMT
Wicked - Somerset have certainly been more successful than us over the last decade and almost certainly better run but the post of yours that I was responding to referred to much longer timeframes than that. Somerset have famously never won a County Championship, so definitely not an exemplar of long term success.
Without scouring through the records, I suspect the best example of a non test ground county achieving success over several decades has been Kent although even they have had times in the doldrums.
|
|
|
Post by squarepoint on Dec 5, 2023 21:19:23 GMT
Wicked - Somerset have certainly been more successful than us over the last decade and almost certainly better run but the post of yours that I was responding to referred to much longer timeframes than that. Somerset have famously never won a County Championship, so definitely not an exemplar of long term success. Without scouring through the records, I suspect the best example of a non test ground county achieving success over several decades has been Kent although even they have had times in the doldrums. Having found a convenient summary on Wikipedia, the other contenders are Essex, although they only started winning trophies from the late 70s onwards. We could learn a thing or two from both of these counties I’m sure.
|
|
|
Post by ashingtonmartlet on Dec 5, 2023 22:43:48 GMT
2005? WC lists the trophies they've won - T20 in 2023 and the 50-over competition in 2019. The reliability of Fandom pages! Genuinely fascinated though either way, would you really this season rather win promotion to Div 1 than win the T20 and have that silverware. Its interesting each persons values like that, i remember when Brighton got the FA Cup semi final under Hughton and were battling relegation and the debate then would you rather go down but win the FA Cup! I'd have rather wont he FA Cup. Interesting debate. I did wonder what your source was😉 well, our 2009 season was that very debate in a nutshell. Two trophies, a final, but relegation in the CC. I still think holding our own (and more) in division one for so long, getting in amongst all the so-called bigger counties made me very proud…but 2009 can still be regarded as successful.
|
|
|
Post by sussexman on Dec 6, 2023 16:53:52 GMT
Interesting debate about Somerset. I have West Country connections and am close to a Somerset member, so can add a few comments.
Somerset changed their constitution around 2002, so that a new Chair and vice Chair could be appointed, who did not need to go through their normal area election processes. Two ‘entrepreneurs’, already members, Giles Clarke and Andy Nash were appointed. Clarke may have been terrible at the ECB, but did a good job at Somerset. With Richard Gould, CEO, he enabled the club to significantly enhance its capacity, financed by a deal with Pegasus Retirement. I believe permanent capacity is now 8500, and they have space to bring in considerable temporary capacity. Andy Nash took over as Chair when Clarke went to the ECB.
They may not have had as much success on the playing side as some supporters would wish, but I think their record over the last 15 years, as shown by Wicked, is highly commendable for a county of their size and tradition. Certainly far better than Sussex, dare I say. Off the field, their record is also very good, which should enable them to continue with a good playing squad. For instance in 2007 Sussex and Somerset had similar membership incomes, around £400-450k. Last year Somerset recorded subscriptions of just below £900,000. Sussex less than£200k. I understand Somerset sell out their T20s, even with the higher capacity, and charging over £40 for some tickets. I understand Sussex only sold out one T20 last year.
|
|