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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 13:10:55 GMT
This morning I read a two page interview with a county chief executive in which the interviewer pointed out that since the county's glory days in the 1970s (ten trophies between 1970-78), over the last 36 years no county had been less successful and won fewer trophies than this once mighty cricketing power.
The chief executive immediately denied this was true, but the interviewer seemed pretty certain. It seemed unlikely that a CEO was ignorant of the record of his own county so I checked it out and compiled a quick table of trophies won 1979-2014.
After amendment following leedsgull's correction on the Essex figures, their coming top is a big surprise, the high placings for Warwicks, Lancs, Middx and Surrey less so. Sussex in equal sixth place is second best among non-TMG counties. The bottom-feeders are also mostly predictable, with Yorkshire and Kent as the most notable under-achievers.
TROPHY WINNERS 1979-2014 (County Championship plus 20, 40 and 50 over leagues and cups) *amended after getting Essex figures wrong
1. Essex 16 2. Warwicks 14 3. Middx12 4. Lancs 11 5. Surrey 10 6 = Hants 9 Sussex 9 8 Notts 8 9= Glos 7 Worcs 7 Somerset 7 12. Leics 6 13= Durham 5 Yorks 5 15. Glamorgan 4 16= Derbys 3 Kent 3 Northants 3
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Post by hhsussex on Oct 4, 2014 13:23:09 GMT
This morning I read a two page interview with a county chief executive in which the interviewer pointed out that since the county's glory days in the 1970s (ten trophies between 1970-78), over the last 36 years no county had been less successful and won fewer trophies than this once mighty cricketing power. The chief executive immediately denied this was true, but the interviewer seemed pretty certain. It seemed unlikely that a CEO was ignorant of the record of his own county so I checked it out and compiled a quick table of trophies won 1979-2014. The top four are probably unsurprising, but Sussex in equal fifth place emerge as having won more trophies than any non-TMG county. The bottom-feeders are also mostly predictable, with Yorkshire and Kent as the most notable under-achievers. TROPHY WINNERS 1979-2014 (County Championship plus 20, 40 and 50 over leagues and cups) 1. Warwicks 14 2. Middx12 3. Lancs 11 4. Surrey 10 5 = Hants 9 Sussex 9 7 = Glos 8 Notts 8 Worcs 8 10 = Essex 7 Somerset 7 12. Leics 6 13= Durham 5 Yorks 5 15. Glamorgan 4 16= Derbys 3 Kent 3 Northants 3 That really is fascinating, borderman. Amongst lots of quirks and seeming anomalies I'm interested to see that Leicestershire, currently regarded as inching for the door of the last-chance saloon have been more successful than Durham, the highly-praised grow-your-own academy. Like all of these things though, I'm sure there are cyclical elements. Would it be possible for you to break it down into smaller chunks: say a table for 1979 - 1990, 1991- 2002, 2003- date, or any other periods that might be interesting? That way we could see whether there are short-term trends or longer term issues of rise and fall.
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Post by leedsgull on Oct 4, 2014 13:26:39 GMT
Borderman your Essex stats are wrong. Since 1979 they have won 6 Championships, 3 60 over cups, 2 55 over cups and 5 versions of the 40 over league making 16 trophies in all.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 13:47:19 GMT
Borderman your Essex stats are wrong. Since 1979 they have won 6 Championships, 3 60 over cups, 2 55 over cups and 5 versions of the 40 over league making 16 trophies in all. You are right. Didn't see the top two lines of their Playfair entry when I counted. Amazing performance by Essex - table now suitably amended. Sussex second most successful non-TMG county.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 14:58:29 GMT
As requested by hh, broken down into four periods of 12 seasons - so virtually half a century overall...
The figures along side each county refer to the number of trophies won in the relevant period:
1967-78 1979-90 1991-2002 2003-2014
Derbys 0 2 1 0
Durham n/a n/a 0 5
Essex 0 9 4 3
Glam 1 0 3 1
Glos 2 0 5 2
Hants 3 2 2 5
Kent 11 0 2 1
Lancs 6 4 6 1
Leics 4 1 2 3
Middx 3 9 2 1
Northants 1 1 1 1
Notts 0 4 1 3
Somerset 0 5 1 1
Surrey 2 1 6 3
Sussex 1 2 0 7
Warwicks 2 2 8 4
Worcs 2 4 2 1
Yorks 3 2 2 1
It's quite fascinating, isn't it? What is clear is that no side in the last 50 years has dominated in the way that Kent did during the Cowdrey/Underwood/Knott era - and no county has declined so catastrophically since (although to be fair nobody else had so far to fall).
Essex and Middlesex were the teams of the 1980s by some way, Warwickshire the team of the 1990s and Sussex have won more trophies over the last dozen years than anyone else. Nine counties managed to win at least one pot in every era, including Northants and Leics whose supporters you would guess must be pretty contended with that, given their limited resources.
But boy, that Kent side of '67-'78 was spectacularly triumphant - easily the most dominant team of the last 50 years and successful in three different formats. That probably gives them the edge over the great Surrey side of the 1950s, which only had the championship to dominate.
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Post by fraudster on Oct 4, 2014 18:15:59 GMT
Leics, and all others, had a bit of a head start on our new(ish) friends from the North East HH. They would have done very well to win anything between 79 & 90, or whenever it was.
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Post by hhsussex on Oct 4, 2014 18:57:51 GMT
Leics, and all others, had a bit of a head start on our new(ish) friends from the North East HH. They would have done very well to win anything between 79 & 90, or whenever it was. 92 as it happens fraudster, and that's why I was interested in seeing the breakdown. What that shows is that whilst there is a cyclical element, of teams reaching successful peaks, declining, then rebuilding - and that is the Leicestershire story, that offers hope for their future - there is a historical context running throughout. That is really borne out by the story of Kent's 70s triumphs, tailing away almost completely despite their continued recruitment of top-quality overseas players in the 90s and early 2000s. Counterpointing this is the Durham story of 15 years or so of build-up, with false starts, good and bad decisions on imports, ending up in the development of a successful blend.
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Post by hhsussex on Oct 5, 2014 12:37:12 GMT
Spurred on by borderman's example of sound research to reinforce (or refute) a statement I've looked into the one area where results can be exactly comparable: the playing records of counties in the First Division of the Championship since inception. There are no late-comers here; everyone had the same options and it's fascinating to look at some results against the last of borderman's all-trophy groupings. In the attached table I have set out a Summary sheet with totals for all the counties of games won, lost, drawn, tied or abandoned from 2000-2014. Supporting this are the individual, year-by-year records of each county as the make-up has changed over the years. Forgetting points - as points systems have changed - and number of championships, Sussex come second only to Warwickshire in one criterion, number of matches won in the Division. Warwickshire have 69 so far from their 12 seasons, and Sussex have 66. also from 12. Other very strong teams are Lancashire (64) and Durham (60. borderman will doubtless be cheered to learn that Kent have almost exactly the same record as the big spenders, Notts. The least of the minnows, sadly, is Northants with only 3 wins in 3 seasons. Another criterion to look at is percentages of matches won, lost and drawn. Here again Sussex (34.4%) are behind Warwickshire (35.9%, but the leaders are Durham (37.5%).It's interesting, that, despite our frequent complaints about the moribund Hove pitches that overall our record of Drawn games is one of the lowest - 39.1%. Somerset top this table with 55.0% and this must have something to do with the Taunton wickets, and possibly the type of captaincy under Trescothick in the last few years. I will try to do some more research on a pitch by pitch basis to identify this, though it will take a bit longer! For once Northants don't have the highest proportion of matches lost. That distinction goes to Glamorgan (59.4%) with the perennial yo-yo side Worcestershire next with 53.8% games ending in defeat.
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