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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 9:47:13 GMT
Not sure when the party is being announced but it must be soon as they fly out in late March.
I was thinking about its composition because it seems to me there are several places up for grabs and no form to go on as, apart from a brief Lions tour of SA, English cricketers haven't played any other form of first-class cricket for six months.
Certainties:
Cook (capt) Moeen Ali Bell Ballance Root Buttler Anderson Broad Jordan Woakes Tredwell
That leaves another four places up for grabs, probably three of them for batsmen.
Robson? Trott? Taylor? Lyth? Vince? Presumably not Hales, as he was given permission to enter the IPL auction (although he wasn't bought), which suggests the selectors have told him he's not wanted.
Does one of the batting places go to an all-rounder? If so with Bopara in the IPL it would probably mean a recall for Stokes.
If Stokes was recalled, do we really need a sixth seamer and if so who? Finn to be retained? Rankin or Plunkett to be recalled? Or do we blood a promising young quick like Overton or Brooks? Or may be we don't need a sixth seamer and someone like Adil Rashid might be worth a punt?
We are hardly over-blessed with too many attractive options, are we?
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Post by hhsussex on Feb 22, 2015 10:22:47 GMT
Not sure when the party is being announced but it must be soon as they fly out in late March. I was thinking about its composition because it seems to me there are several places up for grabs and no form to go on as, apart from a brief Lions tour of SA, English cricketers haven't played any other form of first-class cricket for six months. Certainties: Cook (capt) Moeen Ali Bell Ballance Root Buttler Anderson Broad Jordan Woakes Tredwell That leaves another four places up for grabs, probably three of them for batsmen. Robson? Trott? Taylor? Lyth? Vince? Presumably not Hales, as he was given permission to enter the IPL auction (although he wasn't bought), which suggests the selectors have told him he's not wanted. Does one of the batting places go to an all-rounder? If so with Bopara in the IPL it would probably mean a recall for Stokes. If Stokes was recalled, do we really need a sixth seamer and if so who? Finn to be retained? Rankin or Plunkett to be recalled? Or do we blood a promising young quick like Overton or Brooks? Or may be we don't need a sixth seamer and someone like Adil Rashid might be worth a punt? We are hardly over-blessed with too many attractive options, are we? Thinking about the balance of the squad, the format of the tour is for 3 Tests, plus two warm-up games in St Kitts, one a two-day game, which will presumably be played on the Fletcher method of everyone in the squad gets a chance at batting and bowling, then another three day game (no opposition confirmed) just 3 days ahead of the first Test. No one-day games of any kind. So if the tour is to be regarded as an attempt to rebuild a side to contest the Ashes - not to mention the currently fearsome New Zealand side - it would be an opportunity to try and address some of the weaknesses we've become aware of in the past few months. Looking at borderman's list of certainties I would say that Moeen Ali has a make or break chance to build innings against the short-pitched ball. He should face plenty of these against the West Indies and if he can't amend his technique then it probably opens up again the question of the spinner's role against the Australians. Secondly, is Bell a certainty any longer? For a very long time we've waited for him consistently to dominate or to delight and the consistency has always been lacking. Usually he has played charming, brief innings, occasionally he has lived up to his reputation and his seniority, but never for long enough to feel that his is the vital wicket in an England innings. Now would be the time to look at bringing on Taylor or Vince, throwing them into the mix with the likelihood that they would have two or three games in which to find their feet and explore the limitations of their undoubted talent. Ballance and Root I agree with, and think that these two will have a big burden on them this summer. Buttler I'm not at all sure of, and if we're thinking of additional places, then I'd like to see Billings given a chance both as batsman and as keeper. Certainly his keeping can hardly be worse than Buttler's, who has failed to show any advance since being thrust into the role last summer. I'd agree with a return for Stokes, and hope again that he can take the opportunity to develop and to learn when to bowl short and against whom. I don't think we need a 6th seamer, though I'd like to see Fiunn back and returning to the form he had before Saker destroyed his action. Here the vulnerable one would probably be Broad, whose all-round game is receding rapidly. I agree with Tredwell, partly because you need two spinners on the current West Indian pitches, but also partly because there is nobody else, Moeen Ali excepted, who is fit to bowl spin at a decent level. I'd like to see Adil Rashid return to the form he showed as a youngster, but nothing I've seen in the last couple of years suggests that he has: his better return of wickets and average last year probably says more about the poor techniques of county batsmen unused to any kind of spin, and to careful handling by his captain. Finally, the ones I haven't commented on: Cook to open with Lyth or Moeen Ali. Lyth looked a class player last year at Arundel and many have said the same about him on far more troublesome wickets, and he should get the chance that Robson has squandered. Cook has some rebuilding to do as a batsman, leaving aside any discussion of captaincy skills. If he cannot do that in the West Indies then we will have to tackle two issues against New Zealand, the openers and the captain.
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Post by leedsgull on Feb 22, 2015 11:27:48 GMT
I would like to see Lyth, Vince and Taylor given chances but sadly expect to see Trott brought back. Having seen a lot of Rashid's career I do not think he has the mental capacity for Test cricket. He regularly falls apart when attacked by a quality batsman. I also think Plunkett should return ahead of Stokes. Until he was injured last summer Plunkett was performing very well. Stokes needs some county cricket to rebuild his reputation.The idea of Billings as a second wicketkeeper is interesting as he is unlikely to play much and seems better than taking Bairstow to carry the drinks.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 11:41:29 GMT
So with no room for Rashid or Bairstow, that's only the four Yorkies in your squad, Leedsgull! Don't think they will bother including a second wicket-keeper in the party, but if they do I agree it should be Billings. That would leave Kent up a gum tree for the first month of the season, though. They don't have a second wicket-keeper with any first team experience on the staff and would probably have to loan one from somewhere. If Bairstow is left at home and Billings is selected, Yorkshire's ex-Sussex keeper Andrew Hodd would be a good choice.
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Post by leedsgull on Feb 22, 2015 15:06:52 GMT
I think Hodd may play some early season games purely as a batsman.Yorkshire will probably be without Root, Ballance and Lyth,also Gale is suspended for the first match. They have plenty of bowling cover but next to no batsman in reserve.
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Post by coverpoint on Feb 22, 2015 16:50:54 GMT
Openers
Cook Lyth Lees
Middle order batsmen
Ballance Bell Root
Keepers
Buttler Bairstow
Spinners
M Ali Rashid
Seamers
Anderson Broad Finn Jordan Plunkett Stokes Woakes
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Post by hhsussex on Feb 22, 2015 17:12:29 GMT
Openers Cook Lyth Lees Middle order batsmen Ballance Bell Root Keepers Buttler Bairstow Spinners M Ali Rashid Seamers Anderson Broad Finn Jordan Plunkett Stokes Woakes Well that seems to cover everything, but why 17 players for a 3 Test (and two practice games) tour, and why these choices and not others?
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Post by coverpoint on Feb 22, 2015 17:54:24 GMT
Openers Cook Lyth Lees Middle order batsmen Ballance Bell Root Keepers Buttler Bairstow Spinners M Ali Rashid Seamers Anderson Broad Finn Jordan Plunkett Stokes Woakes Well that seems to cover everything, but why 17 players for a 3 Test (and two practice games) tour, and why these choices and not others? Twelve centrally contracted players are certain to go. Lyth was the best opening batsman in county cricket last season. Together with Lees they formed the best opening partnership in county cricket. Bairstow provides both a keeping and middle order batsman alternative. Rashid provides a leg spin option which on Caribbean wickets would be useful. Until his injury Plunkett was England best bowler last summer.
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Post by hhsussex on Feb 23, 2015 8:06:57 GMT
Yes, but what are you going to do with, for example, 7 fast bowlers on a 3 match tour? As to "Bairstow provides both a keeping and middle order batsman alternative", that's very true, but mostly as an alternative to a competent wicket-keeper and a Test-class batsman.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 10:38:24 GMT
Nick Hoult on the first test tour party of the post-Pietersen, post-Flower era: www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/11448739/England-begin-planning-for-Test-tour-of-West-Indies-and-life-after-Kevin-Pietersen.htmlHoult reckons Billings and Rashid will make the trip (the loss of Bilings for the first month of the season will be a real headache for cash-strapped Kent as since sacking Geraint Jones they have no second keeper with any first team experience). He's less sure which way the debate will go on Trott and implies if he is selected it will be as Cook's opening partner rather than in his old berth at number three; Ballance was voted the ICC's emerging cricketer of the year for his performances in 2014 at number three and, despite his world cup struggles, to move him from there would be perverse. ( Trott - who is starting to sound like Yosser in The Boys From The Black Stuff - has apparently already been in Moores' ear, telling him that he's ready to volunteer for the opener's role). In the bowling department, Hoult throws Plunkett's name back into the ring - presumably in addition to Anderson, Broad, Finn, Woakes and Jordan for apparently there is no question of Anderson or Broad being rested. Anderson's family have already booked their flights to see him play his 100th Test match in the Caribbean and Broad said this week that he's already packed his Test kit for the trip.
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Post by hhsussex on Mar 12, 2015 14:13:33 GMT
Now that we no longer have the distraction of wondering when England would step on the banana-skin that slid them out of the World Cup, kits time to reopen this thread. borderman and coverpoint have put up suggestions, but perhaps one of the indicators from our poll, that older and/or underperforming players should be shelved now in the interests of rebuilding might cause a change of view?
For example, both of those members had Anderson and Broad as certainties in their team. Would we still agree with this, outside England, and with the need for major change in thinking evident? We have 17 Tests to play this year, and if we want to experiment, now would be a good time. By the same token, with all his good qualities, is Moeen Ali really going to make a Test opener? Perhaps No 6 with a lot of top-class remedial work being done by coaches on his trigger movements against the short-pitched ball.
Lastly, and for the same reasons, if we're serious about rebuilding should we automatically include Bell? He isn't going to change now - which deoesn't mean he might not have a role against NZ or Australia in the next few months, but much lkess likely against Pakistan and SA next autumn/winter. Isn't this the best time to look at Vince, or to explore how time and circumstance have changed Taylor since he emerged in the (rather long) shadow of Pietersen three years ago ?
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Post by coverpoint on Mar 18, 2015 12:35:16 GMT
I picked thirteen of the squad. Woakes and Moeen injured and replaced by Wood and Tredwell. Lees replaced by Trott. Why has Wood been chosen ahead of Finn? He had a poor Lions tour.
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Mar 18, 2015 13:07:21 GMT
From Twittersphere
A disgrace that James Whitaker refused a Press Conference on such an important England cricket day.
Nick Hoult of 'The Telegraph' tweets: Shame Whitaker not doing a press conference today. Many exciting names to talk about. too worried about KP questions.
Hoult tweets again: KP not the story today so come out and talk about the new players or Trott. Would eng football manager not do press conf?
Meanwhile, Cook having an odd moment when he dismisses Morgan's captaincy after Aus/NZ by stating, "That's when you need real leadership to help steer you through." Perhaps, the start of the lambing season is placing pressure on his diplomacy?
Hoult tweets: Been to many, many Cooky pressers and that is his equivalent of the hairdryer.
Brave of England to recall Trott. One prays it really was just a burn-out. Piers Morgan offers his concerns. Trott couldn't handle Johnson's ferocious pace. That's the truth. I fear for him having to do it again this summer. Reckless by ECB.
Meanwhile, the Yorkshire player-drain to England is nicely summed up by David Hopps, a Yorkie fan himself. There'll be some wonderful chests-thrust-out proudly moaning that we'll nivver win the Championship wi' 6 of our lads out in Yorkshire today.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 15:02:13 GMT
Pusillanimous of Whittaker not to face the press; he should be out there bigging up Lyth, Wood and Rashid. Typical of the craven attitude of England management.
Is Tich Taylor a little unlucky not to be in the squad? Have he and Finn been the two scapegoated for the World Cup fiasco so that Broad, Anderson and Bell can escape scot-free?
Looks like Trott and Lyth are competing for one place as Cook's opening partner. Trott is a big mistake for me and when he gets smacked on the bonce by Taylor, Roach or Holder, those who have exposed him to this again should feel very guilty. Can't imagine his fragile psyche and questionable technique and temperament against the fast, short-pitched stuff will surivive through to the Ashes. But if the Windies don't deck him, I fear Mitch Johnson will delight in reducing him to a gibbering wreck once more.
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Post by hhsussex on Mar 18, 2015 15:03:34 GMT
Alastair Cook (capt), Gary Ballance, Ian Bell, Joe Root Jos Buttler (wk) Chris Jordan, Stuart Broad James Anderson Jonathan Trott, Adam Lyth Jonny Bairstow (wk), Ben Stokes Liam Plunkett Mark Wood Adil Rashid James Tredwell From these 16, you'd imagine that the first choice team would be Cook, Lyth or Trott, Ballance, Bell, Root, Rashid, Buttler, Stokes, Plunkett, Broad , Anderson, and that Rashid would only get in because Moeen is injured and we know that West Indies wickets these days require at least one spinner, and after a few overs the fast bowlers are irrelevant. Tredwell might get in as well, with one of Stokes or Plunkett losing out if they don't immediately make an impression. It looks like a waste of opportunity because there isn't going to be much there that's going to be significant later on, when the New Zealand left-armers are seaming it all over the place, and the Australian stroke-makers are carting poor old carthorse Broad to the boundary, and their clever bowlers are pegging Root to the crease and letting Bell play one elegant cut every 5 overs. The very thought of Trott coming back in is depressingly reactionary. His style of batting was wonderfully effective when Tests sides did not possess fast, reliable bowlers. Now they do, and his fallibility, once exposed, is going to be exploited again, and devastatingly. Lyth is a prospect and should be cencouraged, but so too should Lees, and Vince, and Taylor. Why is Taylor recalled for one-day cricket, which is not his very strongest suit, and once again ignored for the longer game, which is? Is Stokes back as a short-term replacement for Woakes, or is he going to be challenging for one place with Jordan? Why Wood rather than Finn, or if there is an expectation that he can be a Test spearhead, why not try both and drop one of Broad or Anderson, about whom there can be nothing more to learn, and no reason why they should not get gradually match fit again in county cricket rather than pacing out the acres on strength-sapping Caribbean wickets? And above all else, what is the point in picking Jonny Bairstow? What more does he have to do to prove that he is a first-class, second-rate batsman and a wicket-keeper who makes even Buttler look like Godfrey Evans? Perhaps that's why he's there, as a kind of memento mori. On edit: Extra points to borderman for getting pusillanimous in to his critique!
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