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Post by hhsussex on Mar 10, 2015 10:58:42 GMT
As borderman pointed out in this post unofficialsussexccc.freeforums.net/post/7615/thread, amongst Downton's obiter dicta after the great defeat time-to-have-a-look-at-the-stats at Adelaide, was this intriguing suggestion about the next World Cup NEW PLAYERS: “We’ve already started looking at the next four years. We have a long list of 70 players.” 70 is an awful lot of players, but then there are an awful lot of players in the county game, and on the fringes of it in various age-group sides. And, of course, those 70 might not all be new players, there could easily be some old hands thrown in to give a little experience and savoir faire to the blend. But where to start in identifying them? Looking at the numerous and overlapping ECB squads that have been sent out to do battle in the last twelve months, like so many of Antonio's argosies, some to return laden with treasures, some to limp home hugging the shoreline, others rent asunder by the treacherous rocks of bowling coaches armed with i-pad, the following list has been compiled. The teams involved are England Lions four-day squad England Lions one-day squad England Under-19s squad for South Africa ODIs England Performance Programme 2014 winter squad and not least, the heroes of the hour, the ICC WC 15 squad Here are the names - I can get to 51 including all the venerable ones. Who can suggest others to reach the 70? And, just as a minor point, how odd is it that the Lions coach is Mark Robinson and that Jordan is the only Sussex player amongst the 51? Adam Lyth (Yorkshire) Adam Riley (Kent) Adil Rashid (Yorkshire) Alex Hales (Nottinghamshire) Alex Lees (Yorkshire) Ben Stokes (Durham) Boyd Rankin (Warwickshire) Brad Taylor (Hampshire) Chris Jordan (Sussex) Chris Woakes (Warwickshire) Craig Overton (Somerset) Ed Barnard (Worcestershire) Eoin Morgan (Middlesex) Gary Ballance (Yorkshire) Harry Gurney (Nottinghamshire) Haseeb Hameed (Lancashire) Ian Bell (Warwickshire) Jack Brooks (Yorkshire) James Anderson (Lancashire) James Taylor (Nottinghamshire) James Tredwell (Kent) James Vince (Hampshire) Jason Roy (Surrey) Joe Clarke (Worcestershire) Joe Root (Yorkshire) Jonathan Bairstow (Yorkshire) Jonathan Tattersall (Yorkshire) Jonathan Trott (Warwickshire) Jos Buttler (Lancashire) Josh Shaw (Yorkshire) Liam Plunkett (Yorkshire) Luke Wood (Nottinghamshire) Mark Footitt (Derbyshire) Mark Wood (Durham) Matthew Dunn (Surrey) Matthew Fisher (Yorkshire) Moeen Ali (Worcestershire) Ravi Bopara (Essex) Robert Jones (Lancashire) Sam Billings (Kent) Sam Robson (Middlesex) Samit Patel (Nottinghamshire) Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire) Stephen Parry (Lancashire) Steven Finn (Middlesex) Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire) Tim Bresnan (Yorkshire) Tom Alsop (Hampshire) Tom Westley (Essex) Will Rhodes (Yorkshire) Zafar Ansari (Surrey) |
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Post by joe on Mar 10, 2015 12:07:27 GMT
I think you've missed some U19's who leave for Perth on March 25th for a month of one day fixtures v Australia U19
Hugh Barnard ( Kent)
Mason Crane ( Hants )
Ryan Davies ( Kent )
Will Davies ( Derbyshire )
Aneurin Donald ( Glamorgan )
Ben Green ( Somerset )
Haseeb Hameed ( Lancs)
Max Holden ( Middlesex )
Mosun Hussain ( Yorkshire )
Saqib Mahmood ( Lancs )
Matt Parkingson ( Lancs)
Callum Taylor ( Essex )
Aaron Thompson ( Warwickshire )
Jared Warner ( Yorkshire )
Joe Weatherley ( Hants )
And first reserve for the tour our own George Garton.
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Post by hhsussex on Mar 10, 2015 12:18:01 GMT
I think you've missed some U19's who leave for Perth on March 25th for a month of one day fixtures v Australia U19 Hugh Barnard ( Kent) Mason Crane ( Hants ) Ryan Davies ( Kent ) Will Davies ( Derbyshire ) Aneurin Donald ( Glamorgan ) Ben Green ( Somerset ) Haseeb Hameed ( Lancs) Max Holden ( Middlesex ) Mosun Hussain ( Yorkshire ) Saqib Mahmood ( Lancs ) Matt Parkingson ( Lancs) Callum Taylor ( Essex ) Aaron Thompson ( Warwickshire ) Jared Warner ( Yorkshire ) Joe Weatherley ( Hants ) And first reserve for the tour our own George Garton. Thanks joe, good spot. Haseeb and Saquib were in the earlier group, so that brings the total up to 65 - nearly the magic 70, although even Downton can't expect the likes of Trott and Bresnan (and about 8 or 9 others) to be in contention in 4 years time....can he?  ? I will resissue this list and split into county order - looking interesting, not least for Yorkshire participation. |
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Post by theleopard on Mar 10, 2015 12:22:05 GMT
I'm impressed with your work here!
The ones below are people who have just cropped up on my radar in some way or other over the past season or two.
Will Davis (Derbyshire)
Mark Stoneman (Durham)
Nick Browne (Essex)
Kieran Bull (Glamorgan)
Luis Reece (Lancashire)
Ravi Patel (Middlesex)
Jake Libby (Nottinghamshire)
Tom Curran (Surrey)
Dominic Sibley (Surrey)
Richard Oliver (Worcestershire)
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Post by hhsussex on Mar 10, 2015 12:29:54 GMT
Thanks the leopard. Before integrating your picks (and note that Will Davies is amongst the U-19 Australian party), here is the ECB 67, veterans and all, in county order, and very interesting it looks too.
Davies (Derbyshire )
Footitt (Derbyshire)
Stokes (Durham)
Wood (Durham)
Taylor (Essex )
Bopara (Essex)
Westley (Essex)
Donald (Glamorgan )
Alsop (Hampshire)
Taylor (Hampshire)
Vince (Hampshire)
Crane (Hants )
Weatherley (Hants )
Davies (Kent )
Barnard (Kent)
Billings (Kent)
Riley (Kent)
Tredwell (Kent)
Anderson (Lancashire)
Hameed (Lancashire)
Jones (Lancashire)
Mahmood (Lancashire)
Parry (Lancashire)
Buttler (Lancashire)
Mahmood (Lancs )
Hameed (Lancs)
Parkingson (Lancs)
Holden (Middlesex )
Finn (Middlesex)
Robson (Middlesex)
Morgan (Middlesex)
Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Gurney (Nottinghamshire)
Hales (Nottinghamshire)
Patel (Nottinghamshire)
Taylor (Nottinghamshire)
Wood (Nottinghamshire)
Green (Somerset )
Overton (Somerset)
Ansari (Surrey)
Dunn (Surrey)
Roy (Surrey)
Garton (Sussex)
Jordan (Sussex)
Thompson (Warwickshire )
Bell (Warwickshire)
Rankin (Warwickshire)
Woakes (Warwickshire)
Trott (Warwickshire)
Ali (Worcestershire)
Barnard (Worcestershire)
Clarke (Worcestershire)
Hussain (Yorkshire )
Warner (Yorkshire )
Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Ballance (Yorkshire)
Bresnan (Yorkshire)
Brooks (Yorkshire)
Fisher (Yorkshire)
Lees (Yorkshire)
Lyth (Yorkshire)
Plunkett (Yorkshire)
Rashid (Yorkshire)
Rhodes (Yorkshire)
Root (Yorkshire)
Shaw (Yorkshire)
Tattersall (Yorkshire)
On edit: After removing the blanks that make sorting in Excel such a joy!
On second edit: So that is 15 players from Yorkshire given international representation over the last few months! 6 each from Notts and Lancs too, but 15 is either a tribute to their academy or to a more Northern axis to selection - makes a change from the old "plays at Lords, must be a good chap" bias of former years.
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Post by leedsgull on Mar 10, 2015 15:01:57 GMT
I would have thought Ben Foakes now of Surrey should be on the list. He was in several performance squads.
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Post by hhsussex on Mar 10, 2015 15:16:32 GMT
I would have thought Ben Foakes now of Surrey should be on the list. He was in several performance squads. Yes, but not in any of this winter's teams. I agree he is a prospect - but I'm just trying to identify who Downton might have had in mind, and how many of them are reflected in the current picks. Currently revising the above - several errors amongst names (from the ECB lists) and two duplications (my errors) |
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Post by hhsussex on Mar 10, 2015 16:36:21 GMT
After much revision, attached is a table in Excel showing all of the players picked for this winter's various ECB Full, Lions, Performance, Development squads and the Under 19 squads against South Africa and Australia. They can be filtered in various ways, but I have shown the age of each player at 1 April this year and 1 April 2019 to try to identify who would be amongst Downton's 70 - there are actually 66 names here. I have not incorporated the suggestions of theleopard or leedsgull at this stage - perhaps we can develop our own Unofficial 70, or a smaller number. It might be amusing to look back on it in 2019, assuming there is still any cricket being played then. A few observations: Based on age I would think it very unlikely that these players would be still at their peak in 2019 : Tredwell, Trott, Anderson, Bell, Patel, Rankin, Bresnan, Brooks, Footitt, Plunkett. There are 6 Batsmen-Wicketkeepers identified, at various ages from 22 -29 (2019 dating), so we do seem to have some succession cover identified. There are 4 recognised off-spinners, not counting Tredwell; 4 slow left-armers and 3 leg-spinners. The first-class attrition rate is especially high on spin bowlers and at least half of these will fall by the wayside in the next 4 years. In other words the dearth of spin will continue unless something is done to positively stimulate and influence counties to play spinners in all games and to coach them to fulfilment. The definitions of bowling styles have been taken from the Cricinfo biogs, and I have used bold type to show a RHB who occasionally bowls LM, or a RFM bowler whose LHB is his second suit. Downtons 70.xlsx (11.72 KB) |
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Post by flashblade on Mar 10, 2015 17:23:06 GMT
After much revision, attached is a table in Excel showing all of the players picked for this winter's various ECB Full, Lions, Performance, Development squads and the Under 19 squads against South Africa and Australia. They can be filtered in various ways, but I have shown the age of each player at 1 April this year and 1 April 2019 to try to identify who would be amongst Downton's 70 - there are actually 66 names here. I have not incorporated the suggestions of theleopard or leedsgull at this stage - perhaps we can develop our own Unofficial 70, or a smaller number. It might be amusing to look back on it in 2019, assuming there is still any cricket being played then. A few observations: Based on age I would think it very unlikely that these players would be still at their peak in 2019 : Tredwell, Trott, Anderson, Bell, Patel, Rankin, Bresnan, Brooks, Footitt, Plunkett. There are 6 Batsmen-Wicketkeepers identified, at various ages from 22 -29 (2019 dating), so we do seem to have some succession cover identified. There are 4 recognised off-spinners, not counting Tredwell; 4 slow left-armers and 3 leg-spinners. The first-class attrition rate is especially high on spin bowlers and at least half of these will fall by the wayside in the next 4 years. In other words the dearth of spin will continue unless something is done to positively stimulate and influence counties to play spinners in all games and to coach them to fulfilment. The definitions of bowling styles have been taken from the Cricinfo biogs, and I have used bold type to show a RHB who occasionally bowls LM, or a RFM bowler whose LHB is his second suit. Excellent work, HHS. I am just a little concerned that you should get out a bit more . . .  |
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Post by joe on Mar 10, 2015 17:41:44 GMT
Good work HHS, very interesting.
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Post by hhsussex on Mar 10, 2015 17:58:16 GMT
Excellent work, HHS. I am just a little concerned that you should get out a bit more . . . I certainly shall, flashblade: in fact I promise a period of silence from me very shortly - which I'm confident that you, borderman, and others will occupy with the tintinnabulations of your discourse.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 1:44:41 GMT
I fear most of the names from the u-19 squads will fall by the wayside; they always do - look at the u-19s team which Ali Cook once starred in. Whatever happened to the rest of them?
But some missing names from hh's otherwise exhaustive list, whom I would suspect are in Downton's 70:
Tymal Mills
Stuart Meaker (anyone who bowls 90 mph has at least to be a candidate; also see Mills above and Coles below)
Matt Coles
Reece Topley (anyone left-arm etc, alos see Willey)
Sam Hain
Scott Borthwick
Rasvi Patel
Gurjit Sandhu
Danny Briggs (anyone who brings variety to the attack etc, also see Borthwick, Patel and Sandhu above)
Toby Roland-Jones
George Edwards
David Willey
Luke Fletcher (needs to abandon the Samit Patel diet he seems to be on, but was the best deliverer of yorkers at the death in English cricket last season)
Luis Reece
Jake Libby
There's also a bloke called Cook at Essex, who will only be 33/34 at the next world cup, and is one of the few players , along with Bopara and Tredwell, who didn't damage his reputation in the 2015 world cup campaign.
Fascinating how Kent's tradition of producing great wicket-keepers continues. Their number one , Billings, is tipped to spend April/May in the West Indies, and their number two, Ryan Davies (who has yet to make his first-team debut) will be in Australia with the England u-19s for the first month of the season. Kent reportedly looking at Michael Bates on a short-term contract if Billings goes to the Windies).
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Post by hhsussex on Mar 11, 2015 7:18:42 GMT
I fear most of the names from the u-19 squads will fall by the wayside; they always do - look at the u-19s team which Ali Cook once starred in. Whatever happened to the rest of them? But some missing names from hh's otherwise exhaustive list, whom I would suspect are in Downton's 70: Tymal Mills Stuart Meaker (anyone who bowls 90 mph has at least to be a candidate; also see Mills above and Coles below) Matt Coles Reece Topley (anyone left-arm etc, alos see Willey) Sam Hain Scott Borthwick Rasvi Patel Gurjit Sandhu Danny Briggs (anyone who brings variety to the attack etc, also see Borthwick, Patel and Sandhu above) Toby Roland-Jones George Edwards David Willey Luke Fletcher (needs to abandon the Samit Patel diet he seems to be on, but was the best deliverer of yorkers at the death in English cricket last season) Luis Reece Jake Libby There's also a bloke called Cook at Essex, who will only be 33/34 at the next world cup, and is one of the few players , along with Bopara and Tredwell, who didn't damage his reputation in the 2015 world cup campaign. Fascinating how Kent's tradition of producing great wicket-keepers continues. Their number one , Billings, is tipped to spend April/May in the West Indies, and their number two, Ryan Davies (who has yet to make his first-team debut) will be in Australia with the England u-19s for the first month of the season. Kent reportedly looking at Michael Bates on a short-term contract if Billings goes to the Windies).I was struck by that when putting together the first list, and I'm glad that someone is seriously considering Bates, a fine natural wicketkeeper passed over for a batsman who fields close with big gloves on. I will put together another list with your suggestions and those of theleopard and leedsgull - and anyone else - today. It should be interesting to compare the two. |
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Post by hhsussex on Mar 11, 2015 8:56:20 GMT
And here are the Forum's Fancy. 23 more players, four of whom will only be 30 or 31 in 2019. A group bristling with left-arm pace bowlers, not surprisingly, and three more spinners, plus a Shane Warne impersonator. It is fascinating to play these games and many more players might emerge in the next few months who will make a sudden leap from obscurity and seize the moment. Equally, as borderman has said, many of the Under 19s will fail to progress, or at best become modest county performers. One thing stands out though; these two groups total 88 players and the county representation is far from equal. There are 16 Yorkshire players, 8 each from Lancs and Notts, 7 from Middlesex and Surrey. Some of these players have been bought in, most have been home-grown - particularly Yorkshire. Sussex are close to bottom of the pile with 3 of whom Jordan and Mills have come to us from other clubs. Surely after all these years of priding ourselves on our Academy and Age-group cricket (£460, 000 expended in 2014) we should be doing much better than that? 2019Forumpicks.xlsx (9.98 KB) |
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Mar 11, 2015 9:43:49 GMT
hhs,
Surely after all these years of priding ourselves on our Academy and Age-group cricket (£460, 000 expended in 2014) we should
be doing much better than that?
You touch on a sensitive area. I asked this question to David Bowden who does amazing work in encouraging and bringing through
youngsters around Sussex with initiatives like 'Street20'. Agreed, Sussex has a smaller population than some other counties like
Yorkshire, Somerset etc... but should not more local players end up in the Sussex CCC teams given all the hard work and expenditure
carried out or is it the luck of the draw? Have any of the recent batch made a strong mark at the club?
Machan is potentially one.
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