|
Post by Wicked Cricket on Jul 30, 2015 11:33:03 GMT
I reckon Lyon is an alchemist.
He bowls three overs. Gets a wicket in each over. One run is scored off each over. He then influences Buttler not to review the LBW decision. He walks. Then hawkeye shows that if Buttler had reviewed, he wouldn't have been out. As Vaughan says England still have two reviews left and Buttler is our last dangerous batsman. Why didn't he review?
This is not so much going pear-shaped for England but pumpkin-shaped. Apart from Johnson's brute ball to Bairstow, England are playing like frightened rabbits and the Aussies are the headlights.
Arrgghh!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 11:33:06 GMT
Never moan about the wicket, as Jason Gillespie says.
But 17 wickets in 80 overs is not the sort of wicket you want in Test cricket, whether you're the Warwickshire treasurer, a ticket holder for Sat and Sun or merely someone who was hoping to watch some competitive cricket on TV this weekend!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 14:07:31 GMT
21 wkts in 106 overs so far.If wickets continue to fall at that rate the Aussie second innings wil last another 45 overs.
There are another 52 overs remianing in the day, so England could be batting again tonight and the game will be all over well before Friday lunchtime.
If time hadn't been lost on day one, that could have meant a Test match effectively over in two days. Does anyone really think that is good for the game?
Therefore I don't think I am being unpatriotic in praying that Warner and Smith put on a 200 stand!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 18:51:23 GMT
I'm almost tempted to go for another bottle from you, but I know it's arrival would be delayed because of your forthcoming hols....however, I think that the converse to what you wrote might be equally true, and that another day might have seen something like 7 wickets for 260 or so. Let's find out more about this evil, accountant-hating pitch in a few hours time Are we now evens, hh? "The wicket is what it is" - © Jason Gillespie. But it was obvious yesterday that on this pitch there was no way the Third Test would last more than three days. As it happened , we're lucky it's even going into a third day - 27 wickets in 158 overs is basically five sessions and means that the Test would have been over inside two days if we hadn't lost 30 overs on day one. fraudster and flashbade may say 'who cares, we stuffed the auld enemy'. But can anyone really defend pitches which mean a Test match ends in fewer overs than it takes to play two ODIs??? Read back the comments after day one about the Lord's wicket. Well I say it is pitches like Edgbaston that are more likely to kill Test cricket than the one Mick Hunt served up at Lord's. Four weeks ago Warwickshire prepared a pitch for Sussex on which 12 wickets fell in four days. The same groundsman has now prepared a pitch on which the highest partnership achieved by a dozen of the best batsmen in the world has been 87. Meanwhile, England have a problem now that The King of Swing © is almost certainly out of the fourth Test with an inter-costal muscle injury. They'd better call Steve Birks, the groundsman at Trent Bridge , and tell him to stop watering the pitch as per previous instructions and take off the grass that they instructed him to leave on it. I feel very sorry for Birks, who is caught between a rock and a hard place and is under huge pressure after his wicket last year v India was marked 'poor' by the match referee. Even his own CEO hung him out to dry over 2014's Test wicket : " The bottom line from day one of the game was consistent. It wasn't a good pitch. It's not what we expect at Trent Bridge. It's not what we normally produce we've acknowledged that there's an error been made.Steve's made that error." Ouch. Groundsmen like Birks, and Barwell at Edgbaston, cannot win when they have their county employers telling them to prepare pitches that will last five days so they do not have to refund ticket money and England telling them to water the pitch and leave grass on it for The King of Swing © . The answer is obvious. The ICC has to step in and stop groundsmen being instructed by the hosting Board to fix pitches for home advantage and place pitch preparation under ICC instruction with the only requirement being what is best for the game of cricket.
|
|
|
Post by hhsussex on Jul 30, 2015 19:23:48 GMT
I'm almost tempted to go for another bottle from you, but I know it's arrival would be delayed because of your forthcoming hols....however, I think that the converse to what you wrote might be equally true, and that another day might have seen something like 7 wickets for 260 or so. Let's find out more about this evil, accountant-hating pitch in a few hours time Are we now evens, hh? "The wicket is what it is" - © Jason Gillespie. But it was obvious yesterday that on this pitch there was no way the Third Test would last more than three days. As it happened , we're lucky it's even going into a third day - 27 wickets in 158 overs is basically five sessions and means that the Test would have been over inside two days if we hadn't lost 30 overs on day one. fraudster and flashbade may say 'who cares, we stuffed the auld enemy'. But can anyone really defend pitches which mean a Test match ends in fewer overs than it takes to play two ODIs??? Read back the comments after day one about the Lord's wicket. Well I say it is pitches like Edgbaston that are more likely to kill Test cricket than the one Mick Hunt served up at Lord's. Four weeks ago Warwickshire prepared a pitch for Sussex on which 12 wickets fell in four days. The same groundsman has now prepared a pitch on which the highest partnership achieved by a dozen of the best batsmen in the world has been 87. Meanwhile, England have a problem now that The King of Swing © is almost certainly out of the fourth Test with an inter-costal muscle injury. They'd better call Steve Birks, the groundsman at Trent Bridge , and tell him to stop watering the pitch as per previous instructions and take off the grass that they instructed him to leave on it. I feel very sorry for Birks, who is caught between a rock and a hard place and is under huge pressure after his wicket last year v India was marked 'poor' by the match referee. Even his own CEO hung him out to dry over 2014's Test wicket : " The bottom line from day one of the game was consistent. It wasn't a good pitch. It's not what we expect at Trent Bridge. It's not what we normally produce we've acknowledged that there's an error been made.Steve's made that error." Ouch. Groundsmen like Birks, and Barwell at Edgbaston, cannot win when they have their county employers telling them to prepare pitches that will last five days so they do not have to refund ticket money and England telling them to water the pitch and leave grass on it for The King of Swing © . The answer is obvious. The ICC has to step in and stop groundsmen being instructed by the hosting Board to fix pitches for home advantage and place pitch preparation under ICC instruction with the only requirement being what is best for the game of cricket. No we aren't. England got something like the par score, Australia were woeful in the first innings and most of the second. That has nothing to do with the pitch. It has favoured the bowlers, but not hugely, and it hasn't favoured swing particularly: most of the wickets have fallen to bowlers who either get a lot of bounce (Johnson, Finn and Lyon) or who have moved it off the seam (Anderson). It has been a terrific game so far, and may not be quite over yet. In the last hour Nevill and Starc played carefully and intelligently, and an hour or more of that tomorrow could lead to another hour of confident batting, and then to a lead of 130 - 150. That would take some getting, as it did in 2005. Equally they might both be out in the first few overs tomorrow and England will win by 10 or 9 wickets, but it still won't be attributable to a doctored or prepared wicket. These things happen sometimes when really good bowlers and over-confident batsmen meet up. Remember 2000, particularly Headingley, against West Indies, when Cork, Caddick, White and Gough all excelled? West Indies started that series with a crushing win and then imploded, despite the last gasp efforts of Walsh and Ambrose. England were equally culpable and the wickets were not particularly spiteful, but a mood of hysterical despair overtook the West Indies and they fell apart.
|
|
|
Post by fraudster on Jul 30, 2015 19:36:16 GMT
Jesus Christ, somebody stick a sock in his mouth - you and your pitch report, it's so off the mark BM. Have you actually watched any of the match? If you had, you would know that the amount of wickets that have fallen is purely down to great bowling and some cocky gun-ho batting. Not a single ball that I've seen has misbehaved off the track, it's a belter for all concerned.
I did say that Lord's pitch would ruin test cricket and wholeheartedly stick by it. The Jason Gillespie approach isn't to be adhered to by paying fans, just playing players. Why anyone would wanna watch five days of nothingness where the result could have been called at the toss, without having to bowl a ball, I don't know.
And Parsons, Jesus wept, don't play some poor man's modern take on a classic by a genius, play the original my old mucka - L. Cohen.
Meanwhile, Finn and Anderson have been amazing - Finn's spell today, heavens above forgive me Lordy have mercy on my soul. There's been some high quality batting too, Warner, Bell and Root, but they all got themselves out with expansive cocky shots which had absolutely nothing to do with the pitch.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 19:48:24 GMT
You guys are on another planet.
hh: so a test that effectively finishes in two days has "nothing to do with the pitch" - are you serious??? Have you even been watching??? Test match wickets are supposed to last five days - and this one was never going to do so with that amount of grass left on it.
fraudster: "the amount of wickets that have fallen is purely down to great bowling". ffs, if you water the wicket and leave enough grass on it, Chris Liddle and Stehffan Piolet are capable of "great bowling". All you have to do is put it there and let the lateral movement do the rest. This ain't the county championship. It's supposed to be Test match cricket. You are both lucky you haven't got tickets for Sat and Sun.
Shakes head in disbelief...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 19:54:08 GMT
hh: talk about hoisted by your own petard. "another hour of confident batting, and then a lead of 130 - 150. That would take some getting." You've just told us there is nothing wrong with the wicket. Now you're saying that 130-150 would be a tough target on DAY THREE of a wicket meant to last for five? I'm speechless, old friend. And you know that hasn't happened very often in our 50 years acquaintance!
|
|
|
Post by fraudster on Jul 30, 2015 20:00:17 GMT
Liddle and Piolet, now let's not go nuts.
I can't speak for your old mate but I'm certainly on another planet with regards to what you've seen. The only excessive lateral movement I've seen was a Stokes inswinging yorker, which did all its moving before it pitched. I think we've got to the crux of it through your last comment - you could always sell your tickets to a halfwit on the internet.
If this match had finished today it would have had very little to do with the pitch. I'd be interested to hear the views of others on this pitch because I've not heard a single person complain about it but you BM, not a fan, not a player, coach or commentator. Unlike Cardiff and Lord's.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 20:11:36 GMT
"If this match had finished today it would have had very little to do with the pitch".
“Dear, dear! How queer everything is to-day! And yesterday things went on just as usual. I wonder if I've been changed in the night? Let me think: was I the same when I got up this morning? I almost think I can remember feeling a little different. But if I'm not the same, the next question is, Who in the world am I? Ah, that's the great puzzle!”
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 20:14:48 GMT
Meanwhile, life goes on as usual at Hove.
|
|
|
Post by hhsussex on Jul 30, 2015 20:24:29 GMT
You guys are on another planet. hh: so a test that effectively finishes in two days has "nothing to do with the pitch" - are you serious??? Have you even been watching??? Test match wickets are supposed to last five days - and this one was never going to do so with that amount of grass left on it. fraudster: "the amount of wickets that have fallen is purely down to great bowling". ffs, if you water the wicket and leave enough grass on it, Chris Liddle and Stehffan Piolet are capable of "great bowling". All you have to do is put it there and let the lateral movement do the rest. This ain't the county championship. It's supposed to be Test match cricket. You are both lucky you haven't got tickets for Sat and Sun. Shakes head in disbelief... borderman, shake your head as much as you like, and yes, I have been watching throughout: this is not a bad wicket or a wicket that is lush. It is a wicket that favours the bowlers more than the batsmen, but it isn't in any way a greentop. I will repeat: Australia played very badly against some very good bowling; England mixed good with bad and ended up with a reasonable score. That's how it goes. Read what I wrote: apart from Anderson, the majority of wickets went to bowlers who got a lot of bounce from the pitch. Neither Finn nor Johnson got a great deal from lateral movement, and Lyon was also successful by surprising with balls that turned and bounced higher than expected. Haslewood and Starc put the ball there and got damn all in the way of lateral movement, probably because "there" was the wrong length and they are still learning. Anderson did get lateral movement , but I think you would agree that he is a class above Liddle and Piolet. Let's also consider the batsmen who failed, and why they did. Double failures for Australia and significant ones, were Smith, Clark and Voges. Smith and Clarke both went to Finn in each innings, and 3 out of 4 dismissals were to balls where the batsmen was late on the shot, either because of misjudgment of pace or bounce. Voges went to Anderson in the first innings at the start of his purple patch and then to another rising ball from Finn in the second innings. For England, Lyth chased a ball that wasn't moving laterally so much as setting off westwards from the cut strip, Bairstown and Stokes were both unprepared for the combination of pace and bounce that Johnson found, and in Bairstow's case, his initial foot movement over-compensated for the angle of delivery and left him in an awkward position to play the bouncer. Others got out through a variety of means, but these were the key players whose rapid dismissals caused further collapse and meant that each innings was played at a frenetic rate. In the planet I inhabit, a possible pattern of events might be: first day, Australia 240-7, finishing at 280/300. On the second day an England team might have been 220-5, or they could have folded and been all out for 150. As it is, England seem very likely to win - again see my earlier post for the reasons why I'm hesitant - and then we can have a fascinating game at Trent Bridge, which will probably see Australia absurdly dominant on yet another kind of wicket that looks naff at first but actually produces good cricket.
|
|
|
Post by hhsussex on Jul 30, 2015 20:30:18 GMT
hh: talk about hoisted by your own petard. "another hour of confident batting, and then a lead of 130 - 150. That would take some getting." You've just told us there is nothing wrong with the wicket. Now you're saying that 130-150 would be a tough target on DAY THREE of a wicket meant to last for five? I'm speechless, old friend. And you know that hasn't happened very often in our 50 years acquaintance! Not because of the wicket, but because of our old friend scoreboard pressure: the panic that ensues when the cup is almost within grasp but seems to be dashed fro one's lips. cf Hutton at Adelaide in 1955 when Miller had England at 18-3 chasing 94 to win "the bugger has done for us". Fortunately Compton and Evans didn't agree and got the win.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 20:51:39 GMT
Scoreboard pressure - we're talking about the best seven batmen in England chasing a meagre 130 on the third day of a pitch meant to last for five and which you tell us is "not a bad wicket or a wicket that is lush"?
This discussion gets more and more bizarre at every turn, hh...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 21:13:34 GMT
I'm not going to say another word. You guys say 27 wickets in two days had "nothing to do with the pitch", so I will retire from the debate quoting the words of The King of Swing © : "We never expected to get anywhere near the amount of seam movement we did."
Odd that you guys - usually such acute observers of the game - didn't notice it!
|
|