|
Post by Wicked Cricket on Apr 8, 2017 12:54:06 GMT
No different to Brexit remainers or Hillary Clinton supporters, the anti-CBT'ites aren't giving up the fight... quite yet. But then, an annual £1.3m dividend is merely a financial ripple for Surrey. Although, the competition is not a franchise as the ECB own the teams and not private individuals - so the banner may need to be printed again. Martin Searle @calneeagle Our new flag has arrived and is in place in the Peter May Stand! #saveourcounties
|
|
|
Post by burgesshill on Apr 8, 2017 13:29:35 GMT
Well, there is one difference.
The general public had a vote yes or no for Brexit.
County supporters/members not given a vote- otherwise result would have been different.
|
|
|
Post by flashblade on Apr 8, 2017 14:01:13 GMT
Well, there is one difference. The general public had a vote yes or no for Brexit. County supporters/members not given a vote- otherwise result would have been different. No point asking a dying breed to decide the long term future. As Sir Winston Churchill said: "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. "
|
|
|
Post by burgesshill on Apr 8, 2017 14:52:19 GMT
Well, there is one difference. The general public had a vote yes or no for Brexit. County supporters/members not given a vote- otherwise result would have been different. No point asking a dying breed to decide the long term future. As Sir Winston Churchill said: "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. " So, You really do have utter contempt for real supporters. Nice to have it confirmed.
|
|
|
Post by flashblade on Apr 8, 2017 15:07:13 GMT
No point asking a dying breed to decide the long term future. As Sir Winston Churchill said: "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. " So, You really do have utter contempt for real supporters. Nice to have it confirmed. Your expression, not mine. For the avoidance of doubt, I don't have any level of contempt (utter or otherwise) for any cricket supporters. I just believe that the older generation of county members (and I'm one of them) tend to want to preserve the status quo, for their own short term benefit. We are a dying breed, IMO! How do you think that the new CBT will jeopardise the future of county cricket? The aim is to provide the funds to subsidise its continued existence, not to destroy it. PS as someone else has said, there will be no franchises. And, Alec Stewart has accepted that Surrey have lost the argument, and should now support the new tournament. Surrey's protests weren't for the good of county cricket - they were for the good of Surrey CCC.
|
|
|
Post by theleopard on Apr 8, 2017 16:11:24 GMT
Well, there is one difference. The general public had a vote yes or no for Brexit. County supporters/members not given a vote- otherwise result would have been different. No point asking a dying breed to decide the long term future. As Sir Winston Churchill said: "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. " Who said anything about asking a "dying breed"? "County supporters" obviously includes those who watch T20 cricket - so that would mean putting the vote to everyone. I don't think the 20,000 at The Oval or 5,000 at Hove for a T20 represent a "dying breed".
|
|
|
Post by flashblade on Apr 8, 2017 16:24:16 GMT
No point asking a dying breed to decide the long term future. As Sir Winston Churchill said: "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. " Who said anything about asking a "dying breed"? "County supporters" obviously includes those who watch T20 cricket - so that would mean putting the vote to everyone. I don't think the 20,000 at The Oval or 5,000 at Hove for a T20 represent a "dying breed". I was talking about county members. I don't think it makes sense to ask everyone who's ever been to a T20 match to vote on the future of county cricket!
|
|
|
Post by theleopard on Apr 9, 2017 10:00:26 GMT
I was talking about county members. I don't think it makes sense to ask everyone who's ever been to a T20 match to vote on the future of county cricket! Why not? While the paths of Carl, in skinny jeans and with hipster beard, cheering with third craft lager in hand, and Harold, in slacks and daily shaved, with packed lunch and consulting his 2nd XI annual, may never even cross, the former is just as much a county cricket supporter. He may well even spend more money at the club in four T20 matches, and let's face it, is most likely to be around to spend that money for a lot more years.
|
|
|
Post by flashblade on Apr 9, 2017 10:14:50 GMT
I was talking about county members. I don't think it makes sense to ask everyone who's ever been to a T20 match to vote on the future of county cricket! Why not? While the paths of Carl, in skinny jeans and with hipster beard, cheering with third craft lager in hand, and Harold, in slacks and daily shaved, with packed lunch and consulting his 2nd XI annual, may never even cross, the former is just as much a county cricket supporter. He may well even spend more money at the club in four T20 matches, and let's face it, is most likely to be around to spend that money for a lot more years. That's OK in principle; it wouldn't be difficult to conduct a 'referendum' using the membership database, but how do you identify and contact all the Carls.
|
|
|
Post by hhsussex on Apr 10, 2017 17:24:27 GMT
According to a poster on the Surrey forum (http://ovalworld.freeforums.net) at the club's members forum on Saturday chairman Richard Gould said a propos of the new city tournament and the attitude of other county clubs:
On other clubs supporting franchises, "more than a few of them can only see the money".
On the Chairman of Sussex: "Jim May only agreed to support it if Surrey won't be allowed to participate."
He's also reported to have said
Concluding comment on question about whether Surrey should call the ECB's bluff about the use of The Oval: "We hold the keys."
Other comments on this subject and the club's financial status show the them and us nature of the county structure and the reason why change has to happen so that cricket can go on. Surrey are used to being the bosses. They have a huge ground with massive drawing capacity and over the past 30 years a lot of money has been poured into it to ensure that however the team performs there will be solid returns to the investors from the hospitality offered, from its use as a conference cente, and from the massive fees it will receive from broadcasters and tournament organisers. Of course they put money back into the Surrey county development scheme, but their position is fundamentally one of I'm doing alright so why should I worry about the rest. They sneer at other clubs, so no wonder if they attract opprobrium from they when they take the kind of "principled" stand that only the wealthy can do, rather like the posturings of the Countryside Landowners Association when faced with some horribly plebeian development proposal on an unloved (but potentially profitable) corner of their lands.
This doesn't help the game to develop and isn't likely to engender much love for Surrey. They may think they are appealing to "traditionalists" but the truth is they are just like Trump, manouevreing shamelessly for the closing of the deal.
|
|
|
Post by Wicked Cricket on Apr 13, 2017 15:53:08 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Wicked Cricket on Apr 13, 2017 16:09:15 GMT
This puts the cat amongst the pigeons or does it? Middlesex have come out today stating they do not back the CBT. Are we surprised? No. To date, 5 counties have endorsed plans for the competition. They are: Sussex, Somerset, Yorkshire, Leicestershire and Derbyshire. Middlesex Chairman, Mike O'Farrell, states: "While Middlesex is fully supportive of the creation of a new T20 tournament to drive the future of the game, we are unable to support this proposal at the current time. Middlesex has a unique position in playing at a ground that is likely to be a host venue at the tournament, yet not benefiting from the revenues associated with that status. Therefore, the financial impact on Middlesex is still very uncertain and contains great risks to our current revenue streams." And yet interestingly, Hampshire are also a tenant of a TMG that is likely to become a major host for the CBT matches. The question being: Who gets the hosting fees? Owners of the Ageas Bowl, Eastleigh Borough Council, or will some deal be made between Rod Bransgrove and Council Head Keith House? And how do the MCC feel about this? Not very happy given potentially large swathes of money are being blocked by their county tenant. Is this yet more bad blood bubbling up between the two? Perhaps, they should knock heads together and agree a 50/50 split? Imho, this is a political move from Middlesex in a bid to access at least some of the hosting fee money from the MCC for as O'Farrell says, "We look forward to working with the ECB in the near future to developing a proposal that alleviates our concerns and provides a solution to domestic cricket that meets all our collective objectives." For the CBT to proceed the ECB needs a vote of at least 31 in favour from the 41 member organisations consulted. So, who would be the other 9 counties that agree with Middlesex? Personally, I can't see that occurring. This is a unique situation. We shall see. www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-4408132/Middlesex-oppose-ECB-s-plans-new-T20-tournament.html
|
|
|
Post by hhsussex on Apr 19, 2017 13:55:41 GMT
Today it is the turn of Essex, whose statement here www.essexcricket.org.uk/2017/04/19/essex-vote-against-proposed-new-t20-competition/is interesting, even audacious. "...the First Class game will be diminished, in contradiction to the ECB’s objective which is to grow the game in this country – an objective that is unlikely to be advanced by a competition which would exclude large areas of the country from any involvement in it.” Lovely quote, almost worth taking seriously if so many counties and major towns in the UK weren't already excluded from any serious participation, either because of the archaic locations of the county championship, fiercely preserved in despite of any logic or marketing sense, or the bungling amateurishness of the county authorities who have found their little kingdoms dwindling like sandcastles, vainly resising the tides of time and economy. The waves lap against the castles of Essex...gone are Ilford, Romford, Leyton, Southend, Brentwood, Westcliff, Colchester, leaving only Chelmsford. The story is true of most of the other first-class counties, all retreated to one bastion pleading the same story of lack of interest and rising costs. And yet, when a well-researched proposal is made that both promises to increase interest by opening up the game to the whole of the nation, and to give these seneschals of the shrinking shoreline money they don't deserve as a lifeline to keep them going they plead "exclusion" as a justification for their implacable hostility to change. The object of this exercise is not to keep afloat the artificial constructs of the famous 18, but to keep cricket alive and vibrant. The names and identities of the participants are less important than what they represent. The defenders of the glorious traditions of the County Championship, the fondly remembered shire tussles of yesterday, are at fault if they put the preservation of the status quo ahead of the chance to reinvent the game and to keep its spirit alive. In the 19th century the game grew through the successful commercial operations of non-locational teams, such as The All-England XI and its rivals. The game prospered until opposition led by the MCC, who bitterly resented the encroachment on its monopoly, led to the organisation of a few large counties who set up a championship to win back players and crowds from this upstart. The new oligarchy was jealously guarded and kept select, ignoring opportunities to expand to other parts of the country deemed to be "Minor", crushing the last attempt at an independent popularisation in Grace's London County venture by denying them fixtures, and only selectively expanded for the next hundred years, and only then very grudgingly. There has never been a time when those involved in the highest form of the game sought to "involve" larger areas of the country at that level. Their every concern has been a narrow protectionism that has resisted change. In the 60s the International Cavaliers - a team without local allegiances - drew huge crowds, and the response was to set up the John Player League and kill off the upstarts. Ten years later Packer bought his way into commercial exploitation of media rights by successfully setting up a team without national allegiances and the response of the counties was to try to cancel the contracts of successful players performing for him. Plus ca change.
|
|
|
Post by Wicked Cricket on Apr 19, 2017 14:50:02 GMT
Surely, the simple answer to the few counties who put two fingers up to the long-term survival of county cricket is not to give them their annual £1.3m dividend and instead share their sums out amongst the counties who are not as incredibly selfish as Essex, Middlesex and, perhaps, one or two others.
The bottom-line is: The ECB are far too soft on the 18 counties. They should have let Durham go bankrupt. That would have been the necessary reality check needed. At present, a fair number of counties and cricket journalists suffer from a commercial reality bypass!
|
|
|
Post by tigertiger on Apr 24, 2017 12:53:34 GMT
|
|