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Post by squarelegs on Aug 5, 2016 15:54:41 GMT
Hi TheLeopard My apologies for not responding to your reply. I completely missed it! Here's my attempt to do so  THE LEOPARD I'm no fan of a franchise competition, but I am not sure all the arguments on your site are cogent. First, we haven't seen any official proposal for a franchise contest as yet. - You're absolutely right. The ECB is presenting it's arguments county by county (in private) at present. However, details are emerging of their intentions. Second, it says on your site that the ECB plan is to "Turn the 18 counties into 8 city-based teams". There is NOTHING to suggest this being the case. - The ECB have suggested they are planning to create 8 City teams from the existing 18 counties. This is the at the very core of their proposal. Yes, the counties will still exist but they will participate in a new T20 competition to be run at the same time as the new City League (obviously without the county's best players) Third, we don't know if a new competition would run at the same time as the existing T20 Cup. They might well be held at separate points in the season. - Not according to the latest information passed to the county executive. The proposal is for the new county T20 to take place at the same time. Fourth, in the petition it says "County Cricket Clubs are set to be pushed into extinction by the ECB if plans to create new CITY TEAMS are allowed to go ahead." Again, there is nothing to suggest this. Remember, the ECB is governed BY the counties. Why would they want to make themselves extinct? - I couldn't agree more. In principal the ECB is subject to the wishes of the county boards and, as such, would need the support of two thirds to proceed. This is UNLESS they take the unprecedented step of including the wider membership (minor counties etc) to achieve their goal. Those currently in favour (according to Nick Hoult, Telegraph) are those based at the likely city venue (i.e. the current Test Venues) and those currently in financial difficulty. below are details from Nick's article: Who is for and who is against the T20 shake-up? | By Nick Hoult Possible vote for change Yorkshire (if they can remain Yorkshire) Lancashire Hampshire Warwickshire (already called Birmingham) Middlesex Durham (financially reliant on ECB for bail out) Glamorgan (Welsh team could solve financial issues) Possible opposition for change Surrey (Prefer 2 divisions) Essex (Sell out matches at Chelmsford) Derbyshire (chairman, Chris Grant has said in past he will not vote for it) Kent Leicestershire (may need the financial bail out this competition will bring so could vote yes) Northamptonshire (same position as Leicestershire) Somerset Worcester Sussex Don't know Nottinghamshire Gloucestershire So I am afraid that taking these assumptions into account I cannot sign the petition. If opposition is to be made to a franchise competition, it needs to be based on a balanced viewpoint, carefully considering the pros and cons. Read more: unofficialsussexccc.freeforums.net/thread/705/proposed-new-english-franchise-tournament#ixzz4GTOeQLJU |
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Post by leedsgull on Aug 5, 2016 16:54:59 GMT
This morning I attended the Yorkshire member's forum at Headingley. Chief Executive Mark Arthur was asked about the franchise proposals. He said that he was bound by a confidentiality agreement but stated that "you should not believe what you read in the Telegraph. There will be no city based franchise". He also said that Deloites are visiting every county to find out what their business model is and that all this information would be further discussed in September.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2016 18:34:12 GMT
1) It assumes that the income from the competition would be greater than the income currently generated from the domestic competition. An assumption that is entirely correct...and the income from the on-going T20 Blast will continue so there will be two revenue streams rather than one, as at present.2) . My understanding also is that NO EXTRA FUNDING has been proposed by SKY for this new league. Really  Rights to the new competition will be auctioned as a fresh contract attracting new money. TV rights to the continuing county T20 Blast will be put up for secondary auction, with BT Sport as a real possibility.I have to say that I find your reactionary petition is as dishonest as it is misguided. You should think about future generations rather than your own narrow factional interest in preserving the moribund status quo for a few seasons more before county cricket is killed off forever. Because I'm afraid that if people like you get your way, county cricket's demise is nailed on. Forget about 'existing county members'. They're a dying and irrelevant breed and the model of 'members clubs' is a Victorian concept. This is 2016 and our great game needs and deserves a new vision that looks forward rather than backwards. Those who stand in the way risk killing the very thing they claim to love. |
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Post by hhsussex on Aug 6, 2016 7:26:17 GMT
This morning I attended the Yorkshire member's forum at Headingley. Chief Executive Mark Arthur was asked about the franchise proposals. He said that he was bound by a confidentiality agreement but stated that "you should not believe what you read in the Telegraph. There will be no city based franchise". He also said that Deloites are visiting every county to find out what their business model is and that all this information would be further discussed in September. That's ominous: management consultancies are not cheap, and their recommendations have a strange habit of reflecting their initial brief. They are usually equally anathematic to improving performance and to sensible accounting practices. Expect to see a very glossy presentation with lots of buzzwords such as "impactful" and "consumer benefits", and a lot of fake metrics invented to "chart progress". |
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Post by flashblade on Aug 6, 2016 7:45:53 GMT
This morning I attended the Yorkshire member's forum at Headingley. Chief Executive Mark Arthur was asked about the franchise proposals. He said that he was bound by a confidentiality agreement but stated that "you should not believe what you read in the Telegraph. There will be no city based franchise". He also said that Deloites are visiting every county to find out what their business model is and that all this information would be further discussed in September. That's ominous: management consultancies are not cheap, and their recommendations have a strange habit of reflecting their initial brief. They are usually equally anathematic to improving performance and to sensible accounting practices. Expect to see a very glossy presentation with lots of buzzwords such as "impactful" and "consumer benefits", and a lot of fake metrics invented to "chart progress". Presumably the ECB wants to confront those counties whose business model is broken. "Look - Deloittes have shown that you can't survive without the ECB, so if you want to survive you will now do as you're told." |
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Post by theleopard on Aug 6, 2016 9:51:12 GMT
Their business model isn't "broken" though. They "survive" thanks to the ECB because this is the direction the ECB decided English cricket should take - that is, that the counties should become much more professional, with year-round contracts and investing in vastly-improved facilities for players such as indoor schools/academies, top coaching, a generally decent quality of life as a professional cricketer, etc. All this costing much more money than it cost to run a county club 20 years ago. This in turn means the counties produce top quality players for England - reflected in the success of the national side - for which in turn the ECB pays them around £1.8 million a year in return for the investments they have put in. If this hadn't been done, England would now certainly be where they were in August 1999 - rock bottom of the Test rankings. In fact far worse, they'd probably be on about a par with where Zimbabwe are today. If the counties were told "Look - Deloittes have shown that you can't survive without the ECB, so if you want to survive you will now do as you're told." then maybe they should say "OK, keep your money, we'll all go and join the Minor Counties - good luck with the England team." |
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Post by flashblade on Aug 6, 2016 10:12:16 GMT
Their business model isn't "broken" though. They "survive" thanks to the ECB because this is the direction the ECB decided English cricket should take - that is, that the counties should become much more professional, with year-round contracts and investing in vastly-improved facilities for players such as indoor schools/academies, top coaching, a generally decent quality of life as a professional cricketer, etc. All this costing much more money than it cost to run a county club 20 years ago. This in turn means the counties produce top quality players for England - reflected in the success of the national side - for which in turn the ECB pays them around £1.8 million a year in return for the investments they have put in. If this hadn't been done, England would now certainly be where they were in August 1999 - rock bottom of the Test rankings. In fact far worse, they'd probably be on about a par with where Zimbabwe are today. If the counties were told "Look - Deloittes have shown that you can't survive without the ECB, so if you want to survive you will now do as you're told." then maybe they should say "OK, keep your money, we'll all go and join the Minor Counties - good luck with the England team."I can't believe you think that's even a remote possiblity. That scenario would be playing into the ECB's hands - it would leave the ECB with 8 or 9 TMG counties, which would suit them nicely! |
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Post by squarelegs on Aug 6, 2016 12:29:26 GMT
1) It assumes that the income from the competition would be greater than the income currently generated from the domestic competition. An assumption that is entirely correct...and the income from the on-going T20 Blast will continue so there will be two revenue streams rather than one, as at present.2) . My understanding also is that NO EXTRA FUNDING has been proposed by SKY for this new league. Really Rights to the new competition will be auctioned as a fresh contract attracting new money. TV rights to the continuing county T20 Blast will be put up for secondary auction, with BT Sport as a real possibility.I have to say that I find your reactionary petition is as dishonest as it is misguided. You should think about future generations rather than your own narrow factional interest in preserving the moribund status quo for a few seasons more before county cricket is killed off forever. Because I'm afraid that if people like you get your way, county cricket's demise is nailed on. Forget about 'existing county members'. They're a dying and irrelevant breed and the model of 'members clubs' is a Victorian concept. This is 2016 and our great game needs and deserves a new vision that looks forward rather than backwards. Those who stand in the way risk killing the very thing they claim to love. Leaving aside the "people like you" comment... , out interest in helping to "save the counties" is one based on advancing the game for ALL and not of the few. As an events promoter for over 15 years, I can assure you that splitting 1 event into 2 does not result in double the income. People generally only have so much money to spend and, therefore, will choose one and not both. Should this be the case the model you suggest will not come to fruition. My understanding regarding BT btw, is that they have refused to place a tender at this stage, on the assumption they're not convinced the "offer" from the ECB is a genuine one. They are currently of the opinion that the conversations between SKY and the ECB executive prior to this point will result in a 'closed shop'. While it seems that you perhaps see the members as a "dying and irrelevant breed", it is them (and their continued loyalty to their team), that have upheld the financial security of many of the country's clubs. We're not against T20 at all. It's a vital and exciting part of the overall game. We're just keen to make sure that counties like Somerset and Sussex (who'll almost certainly not be hosting a City team) are not left with their county identity, significant fanbase and income stripped from them unnecessarily. They, amongst other counties, are providing tremendous audiences to their cricket matches and are in favour of modernising the competition in the form of a Premier league option. |
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Post by theleopard on Aug 6, 2016 12:55:36 GMT
I can't believe you think that's even a remote possiblity. That scenario would be playing into the ECB's hands - it would leave the ECB with 8 or 9 TMG counties, which would suit them nicely! I don't. It was a tongue-in-cheek comment. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2016 13:30:16 GMT
As an events promoter for over 15 years, I can assure you that splitting 1 event into 2 does not result in double the income. People generally only have so much money to spend and, therefore, will choose one and not both. Should this be the case the model you suggest will not come to fruition. But I haven't suggested any model, merely stated the fact that once the city-based tournament starts there will be two T20 competitions. And your comment about "splitting 1 event into 2" shows a poor grasp of the economics. You seem to be thinking entirely about the tiny numbers that attend matches at the ground rather than the vast TV audience. Two lots of TV rights being auctioned clearly means more income - particularly as the idea is that ALL of the EPL matches will be televised, as happens in the IPL and the Big Bash, rather than the tiny per centage of matches in the current T20 Blast tournament which are currently aired. And do you really think that a city based competition centred on eight large urban conurbations is going to stop people watching county T20 matches at Hove and Taunton (to cite the two clubs you name)? It's absolute rubbish and you expose more holes and flaws in your argument with every new post... |
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Post by flashblade on Aug 6, 2016 15:23:49 GMT
I hope Deloittes will expose the misleading financial reporting to which a number of counties resort, in order to appear more profitable than they really are. They should expose those with inadequate depreciation policies, and ban the use of the dreaded EBITDA (earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation) for headline profit announcements.
If this initiative has the effect of confronting the counties with a realistic appreciation of their profitability (or 'lossability' !) and their true financial position, then it will be a job well done.
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Post by squarelegs on Aug 8, 2016 10:04:20 GMT
As an events promoter for over 15 years, I can assure you that splitting 1 event into 2 does not result in double the income. People generally only have so much money to spend and, therefore, will choose one and not both. Should this be the case the model you suggest will not come to fruition. But I haven't suggested any model, merely stated the fact that once the city-based tournament starts there will be two T20 competitions. And your comment about "splitting 1 event into 2" shows a poor grasp of the economics. You seem to be thinking entirely about the tiny numbers that attend matches at the ground rather than the vast TV audience. Two lots of TV rights being auctioned clearly means more income - particularly as the idea is that ALL of the EPL matches will be televised, as happens in the IPL and the Big Bash, rather than the tiny per centage of matches in the current T20 Blast tournament which are currently aired. And do you really think that a city based competition centred on eight large urban conurbations is going to stop people watching county T20 matches at Hove and Taunton (to cite the two clubs you name)? It's absolute rubbish and you expose more holes and flaws in your argument with every new post... The IPL and the Big Bash are both broadcast live on terrestrial television. The City league will be covered by SKY to a pay-for audience only. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2016 10:49:58 GMT
The IPL is broadcast on the Murdoch-owned Star Sports channels and also streamed live on the Internet.I believe Novi Digital Entertainment bought the mobile rights alone for a whopping 3000 million rupees.
I'd expect every match in the new EPL to be available to everyone via streaming to their computer and mobile phone as well as on TV. This is the brave new world we are entering and it clearly terrifies you. The potential is enormous - as are the revenues.
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Post by squarelegs on Aug 8, 2016 11:15:13 GMT
The IPL is broadcast on the Murdoch-owned Star Sports channels and also streamed live on the Internet.I believe Novi Digital Entertainment bought the mobile rights alone for a whopping 3000 million rupees. I'd expect every match in the new EPL to be available to everyone via streaming to their computer and mobile phone as well as on TV. This is the brave new world we are entering and it clearly terrifies you. The potential is enormous - as are the revenues. You certainly seem to enjoy making a great deal of assumptions about "people like me" and our "terror" at the proposed plans. I congratulate you for your lively, albeit inaccurate opinions about those of which you know very little. However, keeping things about the actual issue we're discussing... Presumably the "whopping" sum paid for rights will translate to fee-paying customers on the mobile network? Big bash and IPL are broadcast (at prime time) free to air. Current SKY Test cricket audiences figures are less than 25% of the highlights package offered by channel 5. Regardless of the TV audiences (all of which is subject to speculation) the case we're promoting is one in which all 18 counties continue to be fully involved in the highest level of competition, playing to an audience that has an emotional (and historic) connection to their side. We're not against the idea of modernising the format, just not keen to support a system that we believe (agreed you don't) will fail. Comparing the proposed city league with the Big Bash is comparing apples with pears. The Big Bash actually INCREASED the number of teams when the competition was formed (from 6 to 8), contrary to the popular view pushed by the ECB about "condensing" the teams to increase quality. The BB city teams plays to an audience where over 60% of the national population reside. In England this would be less than 25% The BB is free to air - The City league will be to a paid audience The BB contains a selection of "mercenary" players (Pietersen, Gayle etc) who travel the world play for these type of competitions. Whilst we fully accept they are brilliant to watch and provide wonderful gate receipts/TV audiences, it is hard to argue they promote a "player-development" model (as laid out by the ECB). It seems unlikely that players of this type, who make their income by playing for these sides, would genuinely wish to see their spot in the side taken by someone else? This is about putting together a modernisation of the game that is properly thought through and not based on the possibly ego-led wishes of the current chairman, set against a group of County Cricket executive supporters keen to recoup debt acquired by the previous ECB's "brilliant" scheme. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2016 11:42:59 GMT
... based on the possibly ego-led wishes of the current chairman, set against a group of County Cricket executive supporters keen to recoup debt acquired by the previous ECB's "brilliant" scheme. You're in a state of denial about the reality of the situation and turning an important issue into a campaign of abuse against Colin Graves is puerile. What's more your website is full of downright lies, starting in its very first sentence with the preposterously alarmist untruth that "Over the next few months the future of our county cricket is at risk." I started counting the further lies that follow but gave up because there are so many of them. I also note that your petition to defend "our" county cricket has been signed by you and just 42 others. And it's pretty obvious why... |
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Rights to the new competition will be auctioned as a fresh contract attracting new money. TV rights to the continuing county T20 Blast will be put up for secondary auction, with BT Sport as a real possibility.
