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Post by coverpoint on Sept 13, 2014 16:16:39 GMT
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Post by jonboy on Sept 13, 2014 16:46:27 GMT
Maybe they're preparing for the return of James Harris?
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Post by hhsussex on Sept 13, 2014 16:50:40 GMT
Yes, its that time of year and the clear-outs seem to get even more critical and wide-ranging as clubs strain after sponsorship money produced by success in the Championship and the one day trophies. Glamorgan's retirees are an interesting bunch: Goodwin the least surprising after an unsuccessful second season and at the age of 41, but Lancefield who was highly rated at Surrey a few years ago must be a loss to the game, and Waters too is retiring at 27 through injury, though the BBC report omits this. More and more the strain on players is telling to produce instant success, particularly when transferring allegiance. I wonder how we at Sussex would have viewed Chris Jordan if his first year had produced say 25 wickets at 35 each, with some spells in the second team as well as the first? Would we have persevered or cut our losses and looked for someone else to do the magic instead? This year we have Piolet as a qualified success, mostly in one day matches; Lewis as an early-season wicket taker who has dropped out of contention after injury; Zaidi who hasn't lived up to his Lancs League reputation and has disappointed in all forms of the game. The one bright star, the more so because unlooked for at the start of the season, has been Cachopa who has now elbowed past all other contenders for a permanent place in the top 6.
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Post by andrenel on Sept 26, 2014 20:32:06 GMT
James Kettleborough joining Glamorgan following his departure from relegated Northants.
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wally
2nd XI player
Posts: 178
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Post by wally on Sept 27, 2014 0:08:46 GMT
Yes, its that time of year and the clear-outs seem to get even more critical and wide-ranging as clubs strain after sponsorship money produced by success in the Championship and the one day trophies. Glamorgan's retirees are an interesting bunch: Goodwin the least surprising after an unsuccessful second season and at the age of 41, but Lancefield who was highly rated at Surrey a few years ago must be a loss to the game, and Waters too is retiring at 27 through injury, though the BBC report omits this. More and more the strain on players is telling to produce instant success, particularly when transferring allegiance. I wonder how we at Sussex would have viewed Chris Jordan if his first year had produced say 25 wickets at 35 each, with some spells in the second team as well as the first? Would we have persevered or cut our losses and looked for someone else to do the magic instead? This year we have Piolet as a qualified success, mostly in one day matches; Lewis as an early-season wicket taker who has dropped out of contention after injury; Zaidi who hasn't lived up to his Lancs League reputation and has disappointed in all forms of the game. The one bright star, the more so because unlooked for at the start of the season, has been Cachopa who has now elbowed past all other contenders for a permanent place in the top 6. Although you highlight Zaidi as not living up to expectations he has done better than Lewis,anyon,hatchett and Liddle ....been the best batsman and bowler in the seconds . A lot of our players have disappointed, but seam bowling is a massive weakness.
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Post by jonboy on Sept 27, 2014 6:40:55 GMT
Can we improve the seam bowling from within? I'd say, it's unlikely. We didn't see too much of Chris Jordan this season and now with a central contract, his appearances are likely to be few and far between. The shining light again this season, has been Steve Magoffin, but he is approaching 35 and Robbo is already talking about managing his workload, which makes complete sense if we want him to remain at the top of his game. So our best two seamers might have less of a role to play next year. Of the experienced back up, Lewis, Liddle and Anyon, are all the wrong side of thirty. Lewis is out of contract, and I imagine, will go into coaching. Liddle has never convinced in red ball bowling, but has, until this season, been the mainstay of our one day seam attack. Jimmy Anyon has had a poor season, blighted by injury, he does not look the bowler of three years ago. It's probably safe to say that all three have left their best days behind them. Of the younger brigade. Well there aren't too many of them for a start. Piolet, as has been said, has bowled pretty well in the one day stuff, without ever looking like he could translate that form into championship cricket. Thoughts that he could become our version of Darren Stevens remain just wishful thinking. That leaves just two young hopes, Hatchett and Hobden. The former has had a lot more game time this year and has generally done OK, without perhaps looking like he's made the breakthrough. A steady season, but perhaps needs to step it up next year. The latter, Hobden has again suffered more than his fair share of injuries, but has shown promise, and genuine hostility when he's had his opportunities. He's also, like Hatchett, bowled consistently well for the seconds. Looking the second eleven statistics, there are no younger seamers ready to step up, although young George Garton does show promise. So it looks as if we will need at least one quality seamer from outside, probably two in actual fact. We have to bring the average age of our seam attack down as it's unrealistic that half our seam bowling options are the wrong side of thirty. I don't envy Robbo as he has to try and do this with very little to play with in the playing budget. Not strengthening would soon see us in trouble given that without new blood, our already weak seam attack is likely to be even weaker next season.
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Post by hhsussex on Sept 27, 2014 6:44:24 GMT
Yes, its that time of year and the clear-outs seem to get even more critical and wide-ranging as clubs strain after sponsorship money produced by success in the Championship and the one day trophies. Glamorgan's retirees are an interesting bunch: Goodwin the least surprising after an unsuccessful second season and at the age of 41, but Lancefield who was highly rated at Surrey a few years ago must be a loss to the game, and Waters too is retiring at 27 through injury, though the BBC report omits this. More and more the strain on players is telling to produce instant success, particularly when transferring allegiance. I wonder how we at Sussex would have viewed Chris Jordan if his first year had produced say 25 wickets at 35 each, with some spells in the second team as well as the first? Would we have persevered or cut our losses and looked for someone else to do the magic instead? This year we have Piolet as a qualified success, mostly in one day matches; Lewis as an early-season wicket taker who has dropped out of contention after injury; Zaidi who hasn't lived up to his Lancs League reputation and has disappointed in all forms of the game. The one bright star, the more so because unlooked for at the start of the season, has been Cachopa who has now elbowed past all other contenders for a permanent place in the top 6. Although you highlight Zaidi as not living up to expectations he has done better than Lewis,anyon,hatchett and Liddle ....been the best batsman and bowler in the seconds . A lot of our players have disappointed, but seam bowling is a massive weakness. Not quite. As you can see, I said that he hasn't lived up to his Lancashire League reputation - which was what Robinson was banking on when he described him as being a "top 6 batsman" and when the opress release of his signing quoted Joyce as saying "He will hopefully fulfil the spin role for us in four-day cricket while possibly also allowing us to play an extra seamer when the conditions suit. He is also a very capable one-day cricketer as seen by his recent performances in the Dhaka Premier League and we're hopeful he can play a big role for us in both the shorter formats.” I'm glad that his batting came off a couple of times at the end of the season and that on the harder wickets in September his bowling contributed to our late successes. That doesn't compensate for the appalling naivety of his batting in the April and May championship games and his failure to make any impact in T20s.
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Post by jonboy on Sept 27, 2014 7:58:10 GMT
Yes, its that time of year and the clear-outs seem to get even more critical and wide-ranging as clubs strain after sponsorship money produced by success in the Championship and the one day trophies. Glamorgan's retirees are an interesting bunch: Goodwin the least surprising after an unsuccessful second season and at the age of 41, but Lancefield who was highly rated at Surrey a few years ago must be a loss to the game, and Waters too is retiring at 27 through injury, though the BBC report omits this. More and more the strain on players is telling to produce instant success, particularly when transferring allegiance. I wonder how we at Sussex would have viewed Chris Jordan if his first year had produced say 25 wickets at 35 each, with some spells in the second team as well as the first? Would we have persevered or cut our losses and looked for someone else to do the magic instead? This year we have Piolet as a qualified success, mostly in one day matches; Lewis as an early-season wicket taker who has dropped out of contention after injury; Zaidi who hasn't lived up to his Lancs League reputation and has disappointed in all forms of the game. The one bright star, the more so because unlooked for at the start of the season, has been Cachopa who has now elbowed past all other contenders for a permanent place in the top 6. Although you highlight Zaidi as not living up to expectations he has done better than Lewis,anyon,hatchett and Liddle ....been the best batsman and bowler in the seconds . A lot of our players have disappointed, but seam bowling is a massive weakness. The other point about Zaidi, while it's true that had he been able to transfer his Lancashire League form to the First Division Championship, always pretty unlikely in my opinion, we might have been able to play four seamers, would that have made us any stronger? We simply didn't have the quality of seam bowlers, whether we play four or just the three.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2014 8:20:46 GMT
I have said all along that Zaidi's biggest problem was that Robinson foolishly talked him up way too high and therefore placed a totally unreasonable expectation upon him. As others have reminded us, we were told that he was going to bat in the top six, that he was going to replace an England Test match spinner and that he was going to play "a big role" in the one day competitions.
Robinson and Joyce hyped him as if he we had just signed Moeen Ali, and given such wildly exaggerated claims about him, he was always going to disappoint.
As it happens, it looks like we might have got ourselves a fair lower-order batsman who is capable of getting a few runs, particularly on the harder tracks of late summer, and a slow bowler who will chip in with some useful wickets. Nothing wrong with that at all. But if we had been told that was what we were getting in the first place, a lot of disappointment could have been avoided.
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Post by fraudster on Sept 27, 2014 16:32:43 GMT
I have said all along that Zaidi's biggest problem was that Robinson foolishly talked him up way too high and therefore placed a totally unreasonable expectation upon him. As others have reminded us, we were told that he was going to bat in the top six, that he was going to replace an England Test match spinner and that he was going to play "a big role" in the one day competitions. Robinson and Joyce hyped him as if he we had just signed Moeen Ali, and given such wildly exaggerated claims about him, he was always going to disappoint. As it happens, it looks like we might have got ourselves a fair lower-order batsman who is capable of getting a few runs, particularly on the harder tracks of late summer, and a slow bowler who will chip in with some useful wickets. Nothing wrong with that at all. But if we had been told that was what we were getting in the first place, a lot of disappointment could have been avoided. That would make him a part time batter and a part time bowler - yeah everybody needs that. You have to have a main dicipline surely. If he's a lower order bat he has to be a main bowler, if he's a bowler who can 'chip in' he has to be a top six batter. Wally talks him up now more than Robbo did then. He was neither the top batter or bowler for the seconds, and he finished with a couple of decent games for the firsts. Let's not forget what went before. Being the best, most consistant bowler for the seconds means one thing for some and another for others, anyway. We need to prioritise that we get Beer, Hobden, Finch, Machan, Hatchett and Jackson as much game time as possible next season. We could do with adding a bowler, but not some bum like we have been doing of late. It's pretty much Harris or Mills really. We should fight for either if they're on the move. Lose Lewis and Liddle and there's your cash. But we need to prioritise a progression plan, and that come from within, in the whole.
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wally
2nd XI player
Posts: 178
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Post by wally on Sept 27, 2014 17:12:06 GMT
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Post by fraudster on Sept 27, 2014 19:02:55 GMT
Looks like Grant and Wells were the top batters to me Wally, and Hobden the top bowler. But yes, I am twisting slightly to suit but so are you. You said he's top of both, he isn't. Zaidi done alright, but what's the key difference between Zaidi and the rest? Zaidi's 30 odd, he should be top of those lists.
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