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Post by coverpoint on Oct 1, 2014 6:11:35 GMT
Garton is the best seam bowling prospect coming through between the age of 14 and 20. Forget Whittingham, Sakande, Moses and Grant. In 2012 Garton took 21 wickets and finished third top wicket taker, in 2013 26 wickets and second top wicket taker and in 2014 30 wickets and top wicket taker for the Academy and various age groups. My biggest concern is how we are going to replace Garton in the Under 17s as none of Smith, Twine, Fazakerley, Piper or Bradley look even close to being able to fill his shoes. The Under 17s are likely to rely on spin next season with Collard, Doram, Rattle and Oxley taking 78 wickets @ 20 between them last season compared with only 24 wickets @ 54 between the five seamers. The batting could be a problem too with Haines certainly the stand out batsman. Academy wise Garton, Haines and Cammish look excellent prospects. Collard, Doram, Jenner and Rattle deserve to join them in the Academy. Hudson-Prentice made real progress last season and deserves to be offered a contract. Yardy, Prior and Nash were offered contracts on the back of considerably less. coverpoint, you have excellent knowledge of the progress of the young cricketers and its good to have your input. Why do you think that the recent generation of faster bowlers has failed, or is drying up? What do you think are the causes, and could anything be done to remedy this? I don't think the over restrictions help players development although as Garton has showed over the last three years if you are good enough this shouldn't be a problem. What is interesting is that Garton, Moses and Sakande all play for Three Bridges and could that hinder their development? Are they all likely to play for the 1XI at the same time? Whittingham was selected for the Academy off the back of just nine wickets. How is someone who has taken 9 wickets for the Under 17s going to become a fifty wicket a season man? Looking at the four boys I have suggested adding to the Academy three are bowlers who have taken 29 wickets (Collard), 19 (Doram) and 18 Rattle). In terms of Under 17 seamers without Garton the top wicket taker is Nick Smith with 11 wickets @ 44. Ben Twine with 6 wickets @ 66, Piper has 3 @ 58, Fazakerley 2 @ 52 and Bradley 2 @ 64. I expect Smith and Twine to start for the Under 17s alongside Collard, Doram, Oxley and Rattle. With Garton finishing in the Academy in 2015 there is the very real threat that there might not be any seamers in the Academy in 2016.
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Post by jonboy on Oct 1, 2014 6:23:38 GMT
coverpoint, you have excellent knowledge of the progress of the young cricketers and its good to have your input. Why do you think that the recent generation of faster bowlers has failed, or is drying up? What do you think are the causes, and could anything be done to remedy this? I don't think the over restrictions help players development although as Garton has showed over the last three years if you are good enough this shouldn't be a problem. What is interesting is that Garton, Moses and Sakande all play for Three Bridges and could that hinder their development? Are they all likely to play for the 1XI at the same time? Whittingham was selected for the Academy off the back of just nine wickets. How is someone who has taken 9 wickets for the Under 17s going to become a fifty wicket a season man? Looking at the four boys I have suggested adding to the Academy three are bowlers who have taken 29 wickets (Collard), 19 (Doram) and 18 Rattle). In terms of Under 17 seamers without Garton the top wicket taker is Nick Smith with 11 wickets @ 44. Ben Twine with 6 wickets @ 66, Piper has 3 @ 58, Fazakerley 2 @ 52 and Bradley 2 @ 64. I expect Smith and Twine to start for the Under 17s alongside Collard, Doram, Oxley and Rattle. With Garton finishing in the Academy in 2015 there is the very real threat that there might not be any seamers in the Academy in 2016. And only one that could potentially come onto the staff when several of our seamers will be well into their thirties
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Post by coverpoint on Oct 1, 2014 6:35:42 GMT
I don't think the over restrictions help players development although as Garton has showed over the last three years if you are good enough this shouldn't be a problem. What is interesting is that Garton, Moses and Sakande all play for Three Bridges and could that hinder their development? Are they all likely to play for the 1XI at the same time? Whittingham was selected for the Academy off the back of just nine wickets. How is someone who has taken 9 wickets for the Under 17s going to become a fifty wicket a season man? Looking at the four boys I have suggested adding to the Academy three are bowlers who have taken 29 wickets (Collard), 19 (Doram) and 18 Rattle). In terms of Under 17 seamers without Garton the top wicket taker is Nick Smith with 11 wickets @ 44. Ben Twine with 6 wickets @ 66, Piper has 3 @ 58, Fazakerley 2 @ 52 and Bradley 2 @ 64. I expect Smith and Twine to start for the Under 17s alongside Collard, Doram, Oxley and Rattle. With Garton finishing in the Academy in 2015 there is the very real threat that there might not be any seamers in the Academy in 2016. And only one that could potentially come onto the staff when several of our seamers will be well into their thirties Isn't it better to have one really good seamer than four or five rubbish ones? The irony at the moment is that for the girls three seamers in Flora Bertwistle (22 wickets), Ellen Burt (15) and Tanya Wake (15) have all really had a terrific year with the ball and so while the none of the boys seem to be developing the girls are. Bertwistle and Burt can also bat a bit.
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Post by howardh on Oct 1, 2014 7:28:26 GMT
Lies, damn lies and statistics! just stop being so dismissive. For once look at the wider issues. Oh , and just to remind you Whittingham had a broken hand for half of his Under 17 year, but never mind!
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Post by jonboy on Oct 1, 2014 7:34:04 GMT
Yes, quality over quantity every time. The fact is though, we probably need to bring through/in three or four young seamers over the next couple of seasons. With only one obvious candidate currently in the system, we will likely have to look outside. Of course, it's not unheard of for a youngster to come from leftfield, a late developer in the mould of Jason Lewry perhaps. Or maybe some overseas youngster who could be brought through the academy. Does anyone know what the situation is with young Archer? He was playing league cricket in Sussex and played a few games for the seconds before getting injured. I'm pretty sure he was acting as twelfth man against Lancashire
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 8:06:05 GMT
Whittingham, Academy plus I think at sometime, I know has been completely ignored by Sussex. Now what does that say? He might not be any good but at one time was considered to be. So if he was why not invest that time? Not just discard him. He's a big strong lad, potential, yes. Worth investing in? Probably, Yes. It might take 2 more years to get some of the potential out. Will Sussex invest in him?
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Post by jonboy on Oct 1, 2014 8:18:16 GMT
If they believe he has a chance, they may have to. As I said, they will need to find three or four young seamers from somewhere
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Post by coverpoint on Oct 1, 2014 20:40:46 GMT
Lies, damn lies and statistics! just stop being so dismissive. For once look at the wider issues. Oh , and just to remind you Whittingham had a broken hand for half of his Under 17 year, but never mind! Even if he was injured at 17 what about the three years since and what about 2008, 2010 and 2013? Even when he was fit he wasn't anything special for Sussex at age group level and hasn't been for Loughborough either. He has only played two games for the seconds and is only ten and a half months younger than Hobden. Hobden took 45 wickets @ 23 for Cardiff UCCE with a best of 6-41 and took 4 wickets on 2 occasions, 5 wickets on 3 occasions and 6 wickets on 1 occasion. Whittingham has taken 14 wickets for Loughborough and 22 wickets in nine years at age group level for Sussex as detailed below with a best return of nine wickets in 2011 for which he was selected for the Academy. To put this into context Garton has taken 77 wickets @ 22 in the last three seasons taking 21 in 2012, 26 in 2013 and 30 in 2014 and scored 738 runs @ 31. All 167 15 720 22 3/35 0 4.31 45.54 32.72 12.87 2014 7 0 33 0 0/33 0 4.71 0 2012 21 2 89 2 1/22 0 4.23 63.0 44.5 20 2011 64 6 261 9 3/35 0 4.07 42.66 29.0 15.52 2009 40 4 213 6 3/51 0 5.32 40.0 35.5 12.24 2007 15 3 39 3 2/20 0 2.6 30.0 13.0 13.04 2006 20 0 85 2 2/31 0 4.25 60.0 42.5 7.69 If the Sussex coaches thought highly enough of Grant, Moses, Sakande or Whittingham to give them Academy Plus contracts why have they not played more for the 2XI? I have not seen anything from them to justify the decision to award them Academy Plus contracts. With Cammish, Garton, Haines and Hudson-Prentice coming through the future looks very bright for Sussex.
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Post by howardh on Oct 2, 2014 9:09:03 GMT
Can't disagree with all those statistics. Let us just agree to differ on computer analysis and "hunches". One knock for the 2nds at no 11 and 44 n.o, nearly winning the match. Mmmm... You are right to pose the question in the first sentence in your penultimate paragraph. Incidentally poor young Hobden has been plagued by injuries for the last two years, hasn't he?
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Post by coverpoint on Oct 2, 2014 12:37:25 GMT
Can't disagree with all those statistics. Let us just agree to differ on computer analysis and "hunches". One knock for the 2nds at no 11 and 44 n.o, nearly winning the match. Mmmm... You are right to pose the question in the first sentence in your penultimate paragraph. Incidentally poor young Hobden has been plagued by injuries for the last two years, hasn't he? I am happy to do that.
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Post by coverpoint on Oct 4, 2014 9:40:53 GMT
"What is interesting is that Garton, Moses and Sakande all play for Three Bridges and could that hinder their development? Are they all likely to play for the 1XI at the same time?" Three Bridges have been relegated to Div 2. It's unlikely that Garton, Moses and Sakande will remain there if they want to develope further. They will need to be playing premier division cricket on good wickets, as I'm sure they've been advised by Keith Greenfield. Would Three Bridges be happy to just let them go with the time, effort and money they have invested in them? Hemingway didn' leave Chichester last season when they were relegated but will he now they have suffered double relegation? Statistically probably only one out of three will end up making the grade and based on what I have seen of the three it would be Garton.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 17:36:25 GMT
I believe Greenfield has advised Sakande to seek a Premier Div club.
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