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Post by flashblade on Aug 15, 2018 16:16:10 GMT
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Aug 15, 2018 17:35:53 GMT
A predictable hit-piece from The Guardian by a columnist choosing the easy moral high ground in a bid to improve her page views.
The ECB are vulnerable and punch drunk, at present, so why not strike when the Board are up against the ropes. It is so easy to do after Simon Hughes, TVs cricket analyser and perceived ‘good-egg’, had a pop on the radio yesterday at Stokes and his behaviour beginning this tedious ‘moral high ground’ stance.
In an odd way, I feel sympathetic towards Ben Stokes and what he has been through. In my view, a botched CPS trial where the primary witnesses (the gay couple) were not even called, gave the media manna to make Stokes out to be the ‘enfant terrible’ and why so many were surprised when the 'not guilty' verdict was announced.
We know Stokes harbours a red mist as anyone who has followed his career has seen. Yet, he channels this anger into the passionate and match-winner player he is, personality traits that so many great sportsmen over the decades have held. Did Stokes beat up his wife? Has he physically attacked cricketers on the pitch with a bat? Has he taken drugs, spat at or hit umpires? All things that a variety of sportsmen have done over the years.
What we know is that Stokes was over the limit after celebrating the success of England’s win against the Windies at Bristol, and while most others would have gone back to their hotel room to sleep it off, not Stokes as he wanted to carry on partying, again a common trait amongst the more genius of cricketers. For example, a certain Sir Ian Botham or Freddie Flintoff come to mind.
Stokes returns to a nightclub he had been at earlier and then sees a homophobic act being carried out on a gay couple outside. The 'enfant terrible' from the past might have even joined in on this unpleasant homophobia, but not Stokes, who becomes their protector and then makes mincemeat of the primary antagonist. I am sure Stokes will now become an icon for the gay community after this Superman benevolent act and as the Bristol gay couple say after stating on camera their great appreciation, Stokes should never have had to go through the full media glare and become castigated before the full evidence came to pass; where the most important evidence never came to light until after the 'not guilty' verdict. The people who should be castigated for this embarrassing trial are the CPS. They cocked it up, and opened the door for Stokes to become easy fodder for the media.
In my view, Stokes has already been punished enough, and should return to the England fold as soon as possible which is exactly what the ECB have done. As for the 'moral high grounders', this is little more than jumping on the bandwagon of liberal virtue-signalling.
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Post by flashblade on Aug 15, 2018 19:14:56 GMT
A predictable hit-piece from The Guardian by a columnist choosing the easy moral high ground in a bid to improve her page views. The ECB are vulnerable and punch drunk, at present, so why not strike when the Board are up against the ropes. It is so easy to do after Simon Hughes, TVs cricket analyser and perceived ‘good-egg’, had a pop on the radio yesterday at Stokes and his behaviour beginning this tedious ‘moral high ground’ stance. In an odd way, I feel sympathetic towards Ben Stokes and what he has been through. In my view, a botched CPS trial where the primary witnesses (the gay couple) were not even called, gave the media manna to make Stokes out to be the ‘enfant terrible’ and why so many were surprised when the 'not guilty' verdict was announced. We know Stokes harbours a red mist as anyone who has followed his career has seen. Yet, he channels this anger into the passionate and match-winner player he is, personality traits that so many great sportsmen over the decades have held. Did Stokes beat up his wife? Has he physically attacked cricketers on the pitch with a bat? Has he taken drugs, spat at or hit umpires? All things that a variety of sportsmen have done over the years. What we know is that Stokes was over the limit after celebrating the success of England’s win against the Windies at Bristol, and while most others would have gone back to their hotel room to sleep it off, not Stokes as he wanted to carry on partying, again a common trait amongst the more genius of cricketers. For example, a certain Sir Ian Botham or Freddie Flintoff come to mind. Stokes returns to a nightclub he had been at earlier and then sees a homophobic act being carried out on a gay couple outside. The 'enfant terrible' from the past might have even joined in on this unpleasant homophobia, but not Stokes, who becomes their protector and then makes mincemeat of the primary antagonist. I am sure Stokes will now become an icon for the gay community after this Superman benevolent act and as the Bristol gay couple say after stating on camera their great appreciation, Stokes should never have had to go through the full media glare and become castigated before the full evidence came to pass; where the most important evidence never came to light until after the 'not guilty' verdict. The people who should be castigated for this embarrassing trial are the CPS. They cocked it up, and opened the door for Stokes to become easy fodder for the media. In my view, Stokes has already been punished enough, and should return to the England fold as soon as possible which is exactly what the ECB have done. As for the 'moral high grounders', this is little more than jumping on the bandwagon of extreme liberal virtue-signalling. Blimey, WC - is Marina Hyde your "George Dobell"? [Borderman followers will know what I mean by that!] Seriously, the Guardian article is essentially a critique of the ECB, not of Ben Stokes. I've never seen you as a defender of the ECB, an organisation famous in recent years for its mismanagement and gross lack of transparency. I would love to believe that the ECB are "up against the ropes", and if they are, what better time to attack them? As you believe that Stokes has been punished enough, what do you think of the ECB's decision to now set up a disciplinary investigation into his behaviour? PS I tend to think that morality should be applauded - not denigrated.  |
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nemmo
Captain 2nd XI
Posts: 285
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Post by nemmo on Aug 15, 2018 21:26:08 GMT
As much as I never thought I'd feel sorry for the ECB they are stuck between a rock and a hard place here.
If they punish him further then it appears they are taking a stricter stance than the court and being unjustified.
If they take no further action many will interpret it as them seeming to not care about their players' behaviour (and subsequently write preachy holier-than-thou articles)
On that note Simon Hughes has been rather irritating lately in a number of his articles.
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Aug 15, 2018 21:57:00 GMT
Fb, As you believe that Stokes has been punished enough, what do you think of the ECB's decision to now set up a disciplinary investigation into his behaviour? Have you read this article from The Independent published this afternoon? I would suggest you do. There is a growing view led by Michael Vaughan that Stokes has been punished enough and I would suggest this disciplinary investigation will be kicked down the road until people forget. After Stokes missed the Ashes tour Vaughan says, "There is no need to keep clobbering him with suspensions." And the journo, Samuel Lovett writes, "...so far no indication has been given as to when the investigation will start again." Meanwhile, Ben Stokes is in the England squad for the 3rd Test, but it may be diplomatic for the ECB not to pick him until the 4th and 5th Tests. www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/ben-stokes-court-case-affray-not-guilty-ecb-investigation-a8492751.htmlRe: My defence of the ECB, I now take the view of a growing many: Stop moaning about the 100 ball and allow the ECB to carry out their vision. This will be a do or die action by them and for their courage alone I applaud them. It was George Dobell who led the assault against the ECB because he was p*ssed off that his crusade to save and develop the present T20 Blast did not happen. The reason why his crusade failed, which so many others seem blinded to, is simple. Both SKY and BT Sports were very happy to bid over the media rights for a new T20 competition, but had no interest whatsoever in bidding for a developed Blast T20. The ECB had no choice but to go with a new tournament. How else can they save county cricket from bankruptcy? I tend to think that morality should be applauded - not denigrated. It depends what the morality is. In the case of Ben Stokes the moral high ground that some allude to eg. that Guardian article, sucks of virtue signalling. |
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Post by flashblade on Aug 16, 2018 9:39:16 GMT
Fb, As you believe that Stokes has been punished enough, what do you think of the ECB's decision to now set up a disciplinary investigation into his behaviour? Have you read this article from The Independent published this afternoon? I would suggest you do. There is a growing view led by Michael Vaughan that Stokes
has been punished enough and I would suggest this disciplinary investigation will be kicked down the road until people forget. After Stokes missed the Ashes tour Vaughan says, "There is no need to keep clobbering him with suspensions." And the journo, Samuel Lovett writes, "...so far no indication has been given as to when the investigation will start again." Meanwhile, Ben Stokes is in the England squad for the 3rd Test, but it may be diplomatic for the ECB not to pick him until the 4th and 5th Tests. www.independent.co.uk/sport/cricket/ben-stokes-court-case-affray-not-guilty-ecb-investigation-a8492751.htmlRe: My defence of the ECB, I now take the view of a growing many: Stop moaning about the 100 ball and allow the ECB to carry out their vision. This will be a do or die action by them and for their courage alone I applaud them. It was George Dobell who led the assault against the ECB because he was p*ssed off that his crusade to save and develop the present T20 Blast did not happen. The reason why his crusade failed, which so many others seem blinded to, is simple. Both SKY
and BT Sports were very happy to bid over the media rights for a new T20 competition, but had no interest whatsoever in bidding for a developed Blast T20. The ECB had no choice but to go with a new tournament. How else can they save county cricket from bankruptcy? I tend to think that morality should be applauded - not denigrated. It depends what the morality is. In the case of Ben Stokes the moral high ground that some allude to eg. that Guardian article, sucks of virtue signalling.WC - " There is a growing view led by Michael Vaughan that Stokes
has been punished enough . . ."
This view supports the contention that the ECB is continuing its cock-up 'strategy'. And - why pick Stokes for the 3rd test squad when there are disciplinary proceedings pending? "Both SKY
and BT Sports were very happy to bid over the media rights for a new T20 competition"
Whereupon the ECB announce that, following market research, it won't be a T20 competition after all. The ECB refuse to disclose the research, but we are reassured that it consulted fully with MumsNet, and decided that instead of T20, we would have a 100 ball competition, aimed at the 'mums and kids'. This proposal has received widespread scorn right across the cricketing landscape. Who exactly, outside the ECB, is in favour of the 100 ball concept? Do we know what the broadcasters think? "moral high ground" and "virtue signalling"Rather like "fake news", these expressions are now used in a deliberately pejorative sense. They are used to denigrate anyone who tries to uphold or support decent standards of behaviour, or criticises behaviour normally regarded by society as unacceptable. The use of these expressions has the insidious effect of making these valid criticisms sound pious and over the top. Time to take a stand! |
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Aug 16, 2018 10:20:16 GMT
Fb,
This view supports the contention that the ECB is continuing its cock-up 'strategy'.
The impression that Independent feature offers is that the ECB will not push for further
punishments. They would be wrong if they did. Therefore, I do not view it as 'continuing
its cock-up strategy'.
...following market research, it won't be a T20 competition after all. The ECB refuse to disclose
the research...
No-one has asked the question why did the ECB change tack? My view is... there has been
pressure from SKY for something new and bold and as SKY wags the ECB's tail, the Board
had little choice.
...these expressions are now used in a deliberately pejorative sense. They are used to denigrate
anyone who tries to uphold or support decent standards of behaviour, or criticises behaviour
normally regarded by society as unacceptable.
We must beg to disagree. The left use virtue signalling to create a false sense of superiority. By
taking the moral high ground, they create a feeling of 'self-righteousness'. They actually believe they
are in the right, even though morals are subjective to what religious/political/upbringing beliefs etc..
you hold. This is fake news with a capital F.
A primary reason why I have become so interested in the Stokes case is that the 'moral high grounders'
(MHG) are faced with a dilemma. Stokes 'thuggishness' occurred because he was protecting a gay couple.
If they had been a couple of heterosexual brutes, the moral high ground would be appropriate. So, the only
person now to blame is the ECB who are on the ropes, anyway, and presently very unpopular with the
cricketing public. It would have been far more difficult for the MHG to twist if the ECB had been in the public's
good books.
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Post by flashblade on Aug 16, 2018 11:35:07 GMT
WC. I suspect your views on morality differ from mine. However, I won't refer to you as 'right wing' just because I disagree with you!
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Post by joe on Aug 16, 2018 14:23:55 GMT
Stokes has previous with this sort of thing. He was sent home from a Lions tour for drunken behaviour and everyone will remember the broken hand incident after punching a locker on an England tour. Everyone deserves a second chance but a third and a forth? When do you say enough is enough?
Whether he was guilty or not, he was outside a nightclub at 2:30am, drunk, in the middle of a one day series. That’s not the behaviour you’d expect of an international sports star let alone a husband and father.
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Aug 16, 2018 15:29:34 GMT
Joe,
Few would disagree with you. The question is should Stokes continue to be punished after already being punished both by the ECB and the Media before being found not guilty by a jury in a court of law. My view is NO which appears to be a growing standpoint within cricket led by the two Michaels, Atherton and Vaughan.
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Post by joe on Aug 16, 2018 16:36:38 GMT
WC, I agree that his livelihood shouldn’t be taken away from him , that he should be allowed to play for Durham. But think for a minute if this had happened to an ordinary man in the street, he’d still keep his job but you wouldn’t be making him CEO of the company as he wouldn’t be a great example to the other employees. With privilege comes expectation and playing sport for your country is a huge privilege.
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Aug 16, 2018 17:08:04 GMT
An interesting slant to the Stokes affair from Charles Sale in his 'Sports Agenda' column today.
He writes, "The ECB are well aware that Stokes being found not guilty of affray means he could
now launch a restraint-of-trade case against them for banning him from the whole Ashes tour
last Winter ahead of this trial..."
Perhaps, another reason why the ECB will not pursue further punishments against him.
Joe,
...as he wouldn’t be a great example to the other employees. With privilege comes expectation
and playing sport for your country is a huge privilege.
I would suggest that right now, Stokes is a hero in the eyes of the gay community.
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Post by joe on Aug 16, 2018 17:24:41 GMT
WC, with all due respect, you also think that Tymal Mills is a hero. I rest my case!
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Aug 16, 2018 17:26:35 GMT
Mills will continue to be a hero if he gains another wicket haul tonight. |
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Post by longstop on Aug 16, 2018 20:35:37 GMT
It might be time to close this thread soon if he goes any further off topic :-)
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