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Post by tiptoes on Dec 7, 2020 9:18:40 GMT
Why the controversy about the fans booing the bended knee? Millwall are hardly renowned for being a paragon of virtue so this gesturing was likely to be a red rag to a bull. Several clubs have already stopped this ritual and if the football establishment and Millwall wanted to avoid any conflict they could have followed suit. I dont believe Millwall fans are any more racist than the average man or woman in the street as one of their top boys Ian "Tiny" Garwood, now deceased, was black. When I ran with Millwall once back in the 70s and we were in this pub singing, one chump tried to get a chorus going "we've got no more n****** in our team" after the departure of Trevor Lee and Phil Walker and he was rightly ignored. This latest jeering and booing was just a backlash against establishment thought indoctrination which has insidiously pervaded our lives.
I feel the same way about the Rememberance Weekend at sports grounds with compulsory silences and poppies embossed onto sportswear. This is hardly left wing posturing, but it's the same uniform establishment diktat. A two minute silence on Rememberance Sunday and Armistice Day should be sufficient with poppy wearing and contribution a voluntary act, not uniform virtue signalling that the BBC and media impose on their zombie staff adjudicating the right dates to wear poppies within their given parameters with little say allowed on personal choice.
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Post by flashblade on Dec 7, 2020 11:00:13 GMT
Why the controversy about the fans booing the bended knee? Millwall are hardly renowned for being a paragon of virtue so this gesturing was likely to be a red rag to a bull. Several clubs have already stopped this ritual and if the football establishment and Millwall wanted to avoid any conflict they could have followed suit. I dont believe Millwall fans are any more racist than the average man or woman in the street as one of their top boys Ian "Tiny" Garwood, now deceased, was black. When I ran with Millwall once back in the 70s and we were in this pub singing, one chump tried to get a chorus going "we've got no more n****** in our team" after the departure of Trevor Lee and Phil Walker and he was rightly ignored. This latest jeering and booing was just a backlash against establishment thought indoctrination which has insidiously pervaded our lives.
I feel the same way about the Rememberance Weekend at sports grounds with compulsory silences and poppies embossed onto sportswear. This is hardly left wing posturing, but it's the same uniform establishment diktat. A two minute silence on Rememberance Sunday and Armistice Day should be sufficient with poppy wearing and contribution a voluntary act, not uniform virtue signalling that the BBC and media impose on their zombie staff adjudicating the right dates to wear poppies within their given parameters with little say allowed on personal choice. I disagree. When a custom/attitude/belief becomes more or less universally accepted in society, it doesn't as a result become "establishment thought indoctrination" - even if the government decides to endorse the cause. I thought the Millwall fans' response was disgusting. You may not agree with taking the knee, but you should respect the motives of those who choose to do so. |
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Post by tiptoes on Dec 7, 2020 12:17:05 GMT
Compared to what used to go on at football matches the booing and jeering was pretty mild.
The reason a "custom/attitude/belief becomes more or less universally accepted in society" and I would say taking the knee, which is a submissive gesture, is universally accepted (although an unbiased poll would probably show the opposite) is because the establishment teach us what to think not how to think.
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Post by flashblade on Dec 7, 2020 14:53:08 GMT
I hope you are just acting as devil's advocate!Compared to what used to go on at football matches the booing and jeering was pretty mild. Not pretty mild in context. It was blatant contempt for an anti-racial protest. In any event, 2,000 fans don't make as much noise as a full house. The reason a "custom/attitude/belief becomes more or less universally accepted in society" and I would say taking the knee, which is a submissive gesture, is universally accepted (although an unbiased poll would probably show the opposite) is because the establishment teach us what to think not how to think. This is not an establishment crusade or movement. It started when an NFL player took the knee in 2016, in protest against police brutality against black Americans. The protest was roundly and loudly condemned by the US establishment, including man-child Trump, and the player involved was ostracised from the NFL. Here is an article from The Independent in June 2020, explaining how the 'establishment' found itself apologising for its original attitude: www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/taking-knee-national-anthem-nfl-trump-why-meaning-origins-racism-us-colin-kaepernick-a8521741.html
You say "the establishment teach us what to think not how to think." Of course, it's up to each individual to think for themselves, although I accept that some are not sufficiently educated/motivated to do this, and it's from this cohort that you'd expect individuals to lazily succumb to a blind faith in establishment/government slogans and PR. |
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Post by tiptoes on Dec 7, 2020 15:54:56 GMT
I do have some sympathy for the taking the knee gesturing at NFL in America as a protest about police brutality against black citizens and a way to win public opinion. But the UK isn't a microcosm of the States and we didn't need to import this agenda because the racial situation here is a lot less polarised. In fact the BLM seems to be a politically inspired movement financially backed by left wing groups.
If players want to take the knee, and several clubs have stopped this gesturing, on the pitch on public display rather than in the dressing rooms, fans are free to vent their opinion by booing, just as they were to show displeasure when George Osborne was awarding medals at the 2012 Para Olympics.
As I said, it's not just the taking the knee but the whole establishment virtue signalling fans have to endure irrespective of the cause. When Eastbourne Borough entertained Rushden & Diamonds (whatever happened to them?) after our promotion to the Conference several years ago, we were subjected to a minute's silence for a Conference player totally unconnected to either club who had died prematurely. Desperately sad for his family and football club but none of our business yet an opportunity to show our phoney designer grief in the sterile, touchy-feely, Blairite pc era.
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Post by flashblade on Dec 7, 2020 18:48:49 GMT
I do have some sympathy for the taking the knee gesturing at NFL in America as a protest about police brutality against black citizens and a way to win public opinion. But the UK isn't a microcosm of the States and we didn't need to import this agenda because the racial situation here is a lot less polarised. In fact the BLM seems to be a politically inspired movement financially backed by left wing groups.You're right - racialism is far worse in the USA, but it's still very prevalent in this country, so the principle of racial equality is still relevant. "left wing groups" ?? This is a political cliche used by right wing politicians, especially in America. Which groups have you identified? Is racial equality a political issue?If players want to take the knee, and several clubs have stopped this gesturing, on the pitch on public display rather than in the dressing rooms, fans are free to vent their opinion by booing, just as they were to show displeasure when George Osborne was awarding medals at the 2012 Para Olympics. Millwall and Colchester have both spoken out strongly against the racist booing, and QPR (who had stopped taking the knee) have said they will now take it up again. No decent organisation can afford to appear indifferent about racialism. George Osborne? He's establishment - he deserves to be booed, trying to ingratiate himself with the sporting public!As I said, it's not just the taking the knee but the whole establishment virtue signalling fans have to endure irrespective of the cause. When Eastbourne Borough entertained Rushden & Diamonds (whatever happened to them?) after our promotion to the Conference several years ago, we were subjected to a minute's silence for a Conference player totally unconnected to either club who had died prematurely. Desperately sad for his family and football club but none of our business yet an opportunity to show our phoney designer grief in the sterile, touchy-feely, Blairite pc era.
"virtue signalling" - another cliche commonly used in an attempt to denigrate someone taking a moral stance. And your final sentence is totally devoid of empathy. I do hope you're not as cold-hearted as you sound! |
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Post by tiptoes on Dec 7, 2020 19:18:26 GMT
BLM is a politically backed movement more than just an organisation trying to stamp out racism www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/12/make-no-mistake-blm-radical-neo-marxist-political-movement/Sorry but I can't weep crocodile tears for every individual who has become some misfortune when I dont know them personally otherwise I'd be in permanent sack cloth and ashes. Your "moral stance" smacks of sanctimonious politically correct twaddle which has double standards where booing and bad manners is justified in some circumstances but not in others. You seem to be a product of brainwashed, self-righteous Blairite ideology and incapable of independent thought. Anyway, I'll leave you with the last word. |
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Post by flashblade on Dec 7, 2020 19:25:13 GMT
BLM is a politically backed movement more than just an organisation trying to stamp out racism www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/12/make-no-mistake-blm-radical-neo-marxist-political-movement/Sorry but I can't weep crocodile tears for every individual who has become some misfortune when I dont know them personally otherwise I'd be in permanent sack cloth and ashes. Your "moral stance" smacks of sanctimonious politically correct twaddle which has double standards where booing and bad manners is justified in some circumstances but not in others. You seem to be a product of brainwashed, self-righteous Blairite ideology and incapable of independent thought. Anyway, I'll leave you with the last word. Iām not going to trade insults with you. This message board is usually more civilised, so best we stop this discussion. š |
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