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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2021 12:12:03 GMT
That's the first time you've edited on purpose, and you know it. Show me where I've cast doubt on Rashid not corroborating, at any time? Ah my apologies, someone else said that and not you. |
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Post by flashblade on Nov 29, 2021 12:21:27 GMT
To edit or not to edit, that is the question
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous posters,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles
And by opposing end them.
[apologies to WS for editing his work.]
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2021 12:25:21 GMT
This whole thing doesn’t play well with me. Where is justice in all this? Vaughan has been hung out to dry on hearsay. He may or may not have said what he is accused of, I don’t know, and neither does anyone else here, I only know he denies it and there is no proof either way. Rafiq has been backed up by two peers, and Vaughan backed up by a number of peers, but that doesn’t constitute proof. For that matter there is no proof that Rafiq tried to get an underage girl (as regards consumption of alcohol) drunk for sexual reasons or sent those nasty texts. I’m not saying the girl lied, just that as far as I am aware there is no proof, it’s her word against his. I worry that we will end up in a situation where any person of colour can destroy any white person just by making an accusation of racism. I just don’t see how that is going to help race relations. Not hearsay, but 3 non-conflicting witness statements. Which peers have backed him up? This is a difficult one - who can testify that MV did not make a certain statement? I'm not taking sides - just commenting on your interpretation of the 'testimonies' PS I wanted to edit this post, but decided not to. The other thing to note is that Vaughn hasn't yet lost his job in any way shape or form, it's merely been decided that it's not appropriate for him to commentate on the Ashes with these allegations hanging over him. Suspending employees while allegations against them are being investigated is a fairly common practice. I have no doubt he'll be back working for the BBC again if he's cleared. I haven't watched the video interview with Vaughn but the linked article from Mr WC seemed fairly sympathetic and non accusatory. You don't need to be brain of Britain to realise that the reason that Rafiq's dodgy communications weren't mentioned in that article is that they are completely irrelevant to what Vaughn is alleged to have said to a group of four people, of which Raifq is just one. There have been several separate articles on the BBC site which mentioned Rafiq's misdemeanours such as www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59338118 - not sure how anyone could arrive at the conclusion that the BBC have ignored them. |
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Post by mrsdoyle on Nov 29, 2021 13:21:40 GMT
This whole thing doesn’t play well with me. Where is justice in all this? Vaughan has been hung out to dry on hearsay. He may or may not have said what he is accused of, I don’t know, and neither does anyone else here, I only know he denies it and there is no proof either way. Rafiq has been backed up by two peers, and Vaughan backed up by a number of peers, but that doesn’t constitute proof. For that matter there is no proof that Rafiq tried to get an underage girl (as regards consumption of alcohol) drunk for sexual reasons or sent those nasty texts. I’m not saying the girl lied, just that as far as I am aware there is no proof, it’s her word against his. I worry that we will end up in a situation where any person of colour can destroy any white person just by making an accusation of racism. I just don’t see how that is going to help race relations. Not hearsay, but 3 non-conflicting witness statements. Which peers have backed him up? This is a difficult one - who can testify that MV did not make a certain statement? I'm not taking sides - just commenting on your interpretation of the 'testimonies' PS I wanted to edit this post, but decided not to. The witness statements are testimony but not proof. On Vaughan’s side we have everyone else in the team presumably, importantly including Ajmal Shahzad, who became Yorkshire’s first British Asian cricketer in 2004, and said he had not heard the comment in adding “the senior guys were really good to me, they took me under their wing”. As you say, very difficult to prove a negative and a nightmare for Vaughan if innocent. |
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Post by gmdf on Nov 29, 2021 13:35:11 GMT
Not hearsay, but 3 non-conflicting witness statements. Which peers have backed him up? This is a difficult one - who can testify that MV did not make a certain statement? I'm not taking sides - just commenting on your interpretation of the 'testimonies' PS I wanted to edit this post, but decided not to. The witness statements are testimony but not proof. On Vaughan’s side we have everyone else in the team presumably, importantly including Ajmal Shahzad, who became Yorkshire’s first British Asian cricketer in 2004, and said he had not heard the comment in adding “the senior guys were really good to me, they took me under their wing”. As you say, very difficult to prove a negative and a nightmare for Vaughan if innocent. Why would you think 'everyone else in the team' were present when this comment was (alleged) to have been made? And given the accusations made against several other Yorkshire players can we really trust their testimony in this? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2021 14:04:34 GMT
Not hearsay, but 3 non-conflicting witness statements. Which peers have backed him up? This is a difficult one - who can testify that MV did not make a certain statement? I'm not taking sides - just commenting on your interpretation of the 'testimonies' PS I wanted to edit this post, but decided not to. The witness statements are testimony but not proof. On Vaughan’s side we have everyone else in the team presumably, importantly including Ajmal Shahzad, who became Yorkshire’s first British Asian cricketer in 2004, and said he had not heard the comment in adding “the senior guys were really good to me, they took me under their wing”. As you say, very difficult to prove a negative and a nightmare for Vaughan if innocent. As far as I understand I don't think anyone apart from Adil Rashid, Ajmal Shahzad & Rana Naved-ul-Hasan has been asked yet if they heard it or not. Shahzad said he doesn't recall hearing it but nobody else playing in the team on that day have either confirmed or denied it publicly. If it was made to a group of players out of earshot of anybody else then it's very difficult to prove either way which is why the BBC haven't sacked him. |
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Nov 29, 2021 14:36:43 GMT
mrsdoyle, For that matter there is no proof that Rafiq tried to get an underage girl (as regards consumption of alcohol) drunk for sexual reasons or sent those nasty texts. The Yorkshire Post state the phone number used to text this girl is the same number as Azeem Rafiq's mobile. She has kept these WhatsApp texts from 2015. To me, that is proof. Screenshots of messages from a number belonging to Mr Rafiq, sent in December 2015, read, "know what I wanted to do on the plane?" and "I want to grab you push u up against wall and kiss you." This to a 16 year-old girl (she told him 17) 8 years his junior, whom he had met briefly on a plane.It goes on, "Ms Ajith, who is now 22 and lives in Yorkshire, described his message as "creepy" and was so perturbed by Mr Rafiq, she asked: "How do I know that you're no some absolute pervert"? She told The Yorkshire Post: “I was just kind of shocked by the crudity of those messages. They were just so vulgar.Please read the whole article if you have time. www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/azeem-rafiq-accused-of-sending-creepy-messages-to-teenage-girl-six-years-ago-3464984 |
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Post by flashblade on Nov 29, 2021 15:17:47 GMT
mrsdoyle, For that matter there is no proof that Rafiq tried to get an underage girl (as regards consumption of alcohol) drunk for sexual reasons or sent those nasty texts. The Yorkshire Post state the phone number used to text this girl is the same number as Azeem Rafiq's mobile. She has kept these WhatsApp texts from 2015. To me, that is proof. Screenshots of messages from a number belonging to Mr Rafiq, sent in December 2015, read, "know what I wanted to do on the plane?" and "I want to grab you push u up against wall and kiss you." This to a 16 year-old girl (she told him 17) 8 years his junior, whom he had met briefly on a plane.It goes on, "Ms Ajith, who is now 22 and lives in Yorkshire, described his message as "creepy" and was so perturbed by Mr Rafiq, she asked: "How do I know that you're no some absolute pervert"? She told The Yorkshire Post: “I was just kind of shocked by the crudity of those messages. They were just so vulgar.Please read the whole article if you have time. www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/azeem-rafiq-accused-of-sending-creepy-messages-to-teenage-girl-six-years-ago-3464984No matter how hard you try, the question of Rafiq's 'nasty' texts has no bearing on the racial prejudice at YCCC, to which the club has admitted. |
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Post by mrsdoyle on Nov 29, 2021 15:22:12 GMT
mrsdoyle, For that matter there is no proof that Rafiq tried to get an underage girl (as regards consumption of alcohol) drunk for sexual reasons or sent those nasty texts. The Yorkshire Post state the phone number used to text this girl is the same number as Azeem Rafiq's mobile. She has kept these WhatsApp texts from 2015. To me, that is proof. Screenshots of messages from a number belonging to Mr Rafiq, sent in December 2015, read, "know what I wanted to do on the plane?" and "I want to grab you push u up against wall and kiss you." This to a 16 year-old girl (she told him 17) 8 years his junior, whom he had met briefly on a plane.It goes on, "Ms Ajith, who is now 22 and lives in Yorkshire, described his message as "creepy" and was so perturbed by Mr Rafiq, she asked: "How do I know that you're no some absolute pervert"? She told The Yorkshire Post: “I was just kind of shocked by the crudity of those messages. They were just so vulgar.Please read the whole article if you have time. www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/azeem-rafiq-accused-of-sending-creepy-messages-to-teenage-girl-six-years-ago-3464984Yes, that does seem to be proof, has anyone from the MSM asked him about this? |
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Nov 29, 2021 15:43:46 GMT
mrsdoyle,
Not to my knowledge. The Yorkshire Post states, 'A spokesman for Mr Rafiq said: “This was put to us late on a Friday evening. We need to look into this, so cannot comment further for now.”
I presume the mainstream media has not followed up this line of enquiry because, if true, it undermines the Azeem Rafiq case. Not only is the Pakistani an anti-semite, but now "a creepy, vulgar pervert" (so says the girl). It stinks of hypocrisy.
Agreed others have come forward and supported him with his Yorkshire claims and various players have admitted to certain racist actions, but the foundation of the case is based around Rafiq's initial accusations. Painting him as an antisemite and creepy pervert doesn't look good.
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Post by mrsdoyle on Nov 29, 2021 16:27:01 GMT
mrsdoyle, Not to my knowledge. The Yorkshire Post states, 'A spokesman for Mr Rafiq said: “This was put to us late on a Friday evening. We need to look into this, so cannot comment further for now.” I presume the mainstream media has not followed up this line of enquiry because, if true, it undermines the Azeem Rafiq case. Not only is the Pakistani an anti-semite, but now "a creepy, vulgar pervert" (so says the girl). It stinks of hypocrisy. Agreed others have come forward and supported him with his Yorkshire claims and various players have admitted to certain racist actions, but the foundation of the case is based around Rafiq's initial accusations. Painting him as an antisemite and creepy pervert doesn't look good. Sexism clearly comes below racism in the pecking order! |
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Post by flashblade on Dec 3, 2021 12:17:42 GMT
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Post by mrsdoyle on Dec 3, 2021 15:02:55 GMT
Wow, on the same day it has come out that the PCA paid off Rafiq’s gambling’s debt’s too! I wonder if there will be claims for unfair dismissal incoming? |
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Post by flashblade on Dec 3, 2021 16:07:18 GMT
Wow, on the same day it has come out that the PCA paid off Rafiq’s gambling’s debt’s too! I wonder if there will be claims for unfair dismissal incoming? YCCC were found guilty of persistent racial discrimination by an independent review body. They have also admitted to having been institutionally racist. What on earth have Rafiq's gambling debts got to do with that? You seem to have joined those who believe that YCCC must be innocent because Rafiq has an imperfect past! |
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Post by liquidskin on Dec 3, 2021 16:51:33 GMT
That's the first time you've edited on purpose, and you know it. Show me where I've cast doubt on Rashid not corroborating, at any time? Ah my apologies, someone else said that and not you. Nobody said it. |
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