|
|
Post by Wicked Cricket on Oct 21, 2014 10:29:33 GMT
No surprise then the BCCI have retaliated to the Windies decision to walk out of the Indian tour mid way through by suspending all their future excursions to the Caribbean whilst beginning legal action. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/29702554For cricketing traditionalists, the Windies decision is seen as the ultimate form of treachery and once more highlights the simmering feud between the players and the WICB and now the WIPA. The pay dispute which has caused the walkout has been bubbling under for some years. The primary problem being that the team’s top players now have a taste of the big bucks from playing in the IPL. Why should they be paid a lot less than their international counterparts when playing for the West Indies - particularly when they believe the WICB are taking an unfair share of the spoils. This extraordinary fallout will affect the BCCI quite dramatically. Some commentators believe by as much as $65m. The Sri Lankan substitution is not nearly the same attraction, given some of the Windies players are big stars in the IPL and have a following amongst the Indian support. This is a new low in the ongoing squabbles between players and the WCIB/WIPA. Chris Gale was one of the first to stand up to the Board. Now what? www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqfyYbHybpMAn excellent article from ‘Cricinfo’ offering the story background. www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-west-indies-2014-15/content/story/789919.html |
|
|
|
Post by hhsussex on Oct 21, 2014 11:32:45 GMT
This is a test for the new troika governing the game, for the ECB and Cricket Australia to use the influence for which they sold their birthrights to find a solution and to sell it to the WICB and BCCI alike. For if they do not, then a number of things will happen in succession, with awful inevitability like the rolling into place of great lumbering pieces of machinery, the effect of which will be to shut down a large part of the game worldwide and dictate the shape of what is left, perhaps for ever.
First of all, the effect of BCCI seeking compensation for the losses - mostly because of the fear of legal action by STAR tv to recover the amounts it guarantees the BCCI for a certain number of days/hours of live international cricket each year - will probably be to bankrupt the WICB and place in jeopardy the status of any international cricket planned by the West Indies for the foreseeable future. This will immediately impact on the World Cup, and on the planned England tour next spring.
Following on from this every broadcaster, sponsor and media interest with any involvement in cricket will now seek much stronger guarantees from any tournament or series whose contract has not yet been signed. Any prospect of the troika holding a strong negotiating hand, which was supposedly the reason for its formation, has now disappeared. Commercial interests, using the pretext of "lost revenue because of default" will be in a much better position to dictate what they pay, what kind of product they are interested in, and what terms and conditions they will insist on. Expect no Test cricket involving any of the weaker countries, and only one-day competitions involving them against "star" opponents, played entirely at times when the broadcasters have holes in their schedules to fill and key sponsore and advertisres have signalled their acceptability. Expect also, a run of gimmicks of the pink ball, cheerleader, night cricket kind to enter Test cricket wherever a broadcaster's focus group indicates there might be a slightly increased audience for this kind of thing.
Then there is the fate of the players, initially the disaffected current generation of West Indian internationals, closely followed by the Bangladeshis, Zimbabweans and New Zealanders. The national structure of the games in all these countries will be permanently weakened, since their boards of control will have nothing to negotiate over, nothing to put into the game to develop it. Instead the franchise oweners will move in to fill gaps strategically where they foresee demand. The kind of cricket played here will be T20 at best, and probably more innovations will be sought to make it attractive. Expect local variations in rules, the rejection of universal Laws of Cricket and the adoption of exclusive Playing Conditions, which may amount to a new kind of game, for these showpieces. Of course development of new players in these countries will stall, along with all forms of coaching for the traditional game.
And faced with these competitive pressures, of new and popular variants of "cricket" springing up in these markets, what will be the competitive result on the promoters of the Big Bash, the IPL and the dear old village-green ECB competition, whatever it is called? Of course they will seek to follow suit and to outdo, to preserve their marketing position. Against this, how long will Ashes cricket, or anything longer than a day's involvement survive?
This should identify whether Giles Clarke has any real negotiating skills, and should flush out what the BCCI's long term strategy really is. As for Cricket Australia, I think we've already seen that they'll follow the money. Whover and however it is done, this really is a challenge that the traditional game has to face up to and take a unified view, otherwise it really could pull apart this whole tattered banner.
|
|
wally
2nd XI player
Posts: 178
|
Post by wally on Oct 21, 2014 12:17:04 GMT
The abandonment of the tour is likely to have disastrous consequences for wicb and it's players with claims estimated at $65 million. But soft and fluffys post is very inaccurate and misleading in important respects. First and foremost this had not been brewing a long time at all. It resulted from a new agreement signed by the players association in mid September 2014. In this new agreement a "sponsorship fee payment " of $ 35,000 per day was omitted, a fee the players had been getting for about ten years. For a 14 man tour party this is $2500 per day each and represents in most cases more than 50% of their total match income. With 21 playing days it totalled just over $700,000 for the tour( in context of $65 million claim). For some reason neither wipa nor wicb discussed this new agreement with the players. They had never seen it and did not receive their contracts until AFTER arriving in India. Getting an unexpected pay cut of over 50% they called Wipa who said don't sign ,we will sort it out. In the event WICB refused to discuss the matter sticking with the agreement...the rest is well documented and is history as they say.Read michael holding 's article which gives you a better summary. www.wisdenindia.com/cricket-article/wicb-hung-players-dry/131231you may also find wicb financials useful to look at total player costs,revenues etc windiescricket.com/sites/default/files/WICB_FS_2013ig.pdf |
|
|
|
Post by Wicked Cricket on Oct 21, 2014 13:05:21 GMT
wally,
But soft and fluffys post is very inaccurate and misleading in important respects. First and foremost this had not been brewing
a long time at all.
I disagree.
The regular fallouts between Chris Gale and the WICB, for example, was about money. He wanted to play in the IPL where he could
gain mega-bucks in comparison to the paltry sums (as he perceived it) as a West Indian international.
I agree this recent collapse in relations between the Windies team and their hierarchy is aimed at both the WICB and WIPA over the
sponsorship revenue but it is still over money. Money is at the root of the Windies fallouts.
The bottom-line is the team believe they should be paid more, rightly or wrongly, and have a larger amount from the overall pot. And
until the WICB resolve this ongoing dispute, the bad blood may continue.
It is no surprise the Windies players have reacted so angrily given how sensitive the "money issue" is, as they now find themselves
earning 50% less money on this tour - sponsorship finances which before compensated for, at least, part of the already existing, as they
perceive it, financial void.
|
|
wally
2nd XI player
Posts: 178
|
Post by wally on Oct 21, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
You are quite entitled to disagree. But you in my humble view quite wrong again.
First Chris Gayle is not involved in this tour or dispute.
Second the players have not asked for more money or a larger proportion of the pot....they have protested a significant cut.
Third while about money this dispute has no roots in any previous dispute and does not involve prior protagonists . Cameron is a new WICB president,Hinds is a new WIPA president , bravo a new captain and supported by Sammy the former scab.
largely the players felt stunned by what they saw as a betrayal by Hinds ( although it is possible he didn't realise the impact of what he signed) and were amazed the WICB would not discuss the new agreement. Passing strange ( or deliberate) that they never saw the agreement or contracts until AFTER they arrived in India.
I hope you can see why I considered your comments seriously misleading and factually incorrect.
there will be further issues too as under the new agreement dispute resolution no longer goes to an independent mediator appointed by both parties , but goes to a tribunal appointed solely by WICB. WICB has destroyed WIPA in one fell swoop. In the meantime it's a Pyrrhic victory as they may have destroyed West Indies cricket. The tour was actually called off while the fourth international was in play. A lot of bluffs were called indeed, but I have doubts as to whether the players were actually going to strike. It was when WICB suggested a replacement team that BCCI said enough!the tour is off. Even after that WICB claimed the tour was on.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wicked Cricket on Oct 21, 2014 14:24:50 GMT
wally,
I can only quote from Michael Holding's excellent article that this dispute which has exploded in India's
face goes back a long way. It is a puerile spat based around ego and is all about money.
In the years gone by, that $US 35,000 per match-day came about because a former representative of WIPA conned a former
Chief Executive Officer of the WICB and got an e-mail confirming that the players were getting that payment, which obviously
the WICB didn’t want. Somehow, the CEO misunderstood what was being asked for and agreed to it. When the final negotiations
took place, the former WIPA rep turned up with the e-mail from the CEO confirming the payment, and refused to budge. He
demanded that the WICB honour the word of their CEO, which they naturally had to. It would seem that the tables are now being
turned. The WICB are now saying, ‘Your representative signed the MoU, nothing will change’. In my opinion, that is behaving like
a schoolboy. Plain tit for tat. You conned me once and played hard ball, now it’s my time.
And as hhs, points out, 'The New Troika' are faced with their first major challenge to finally resolve and heal this long-running feud.
|
|
wally
2nd XI player
Posts: 178
|
Post by wally on Oct 21, 2014 15:44:25 GMT
It is about money certainly...but the genesis is the new agreement which removes a major allowance that had been agreed long ago.
What is interesting is why Cameron and Hinds did not anticipate the problem...And would not agree to discuss it or re negotiate it at minor cost. I don't know anybody who would take a 70 % pay cut without complaint.
And the players are deeply suspicious of how Hinds agreed to this without consultation. Cameron and hinds are both from the same club in Jamaica.
If you read the financials you can see amounts paid to players fell in the prior year too.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 18:24:05 GMT
Top discussion, s&f and wally. Keep it up. Proper, grown-up debate means disagreeing - sometimes very strongly - and it makes the message baord all the stronger for it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wicked Cricket on Oct 22, 2014 7:24:46 GMT
Wally, Perhaps, we should take a bow together?  bm, thanks for the praise. |
|
|
|
Post by Wicked Cricket on Oct 23, 2014 16:27:47 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by hhsussex on Oct 23, 2014 16:45:37 GMT
Ian Bishop clearly identifies the first steps in the potential disastrous syndrome that I wrote about a few posts back in this thread: It must be a wake-up call because any team who was going to invite the West Indies to their shores - this will be at the back of their mind,I don't think the players understood the ramifications of such a move
and
[The BCCI] must be aware that if they bankrupt West Indies it reduces the spectacle of world cricket
Quite so. And so should the rest of the world cricket administrators because it won't stop there; this is a dispute about payments to players and the main source of revenue is broadcasting rights. Once the broadcasters become aware that a board of control - any board of conttrol - no longer has the power to deliver, and is forced to break contract, then the broadcasters will screw them down mercilessly over every contract infringement, and will forever after hold the upper hand in contract negotiations. We should all be worried by this; it isn't "just" a WIBC/BCCI issue, it has the potential to dictate all manner of changes to the structure of international cricket. |
|
|
|
Post by flashblade on Nov 1, 2014 16:42:18 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by hhsussex on Nov 4, 2014 8:25:04 GMT
Cricinfo reports that the players contracts will now be renegotiated between the WICB and the WI Players Association - but with the players having greater involvement. WICB standoff with players ends - reportsThe dispute that brought the team home early from India, cancelling the Tests and leading to a £26.2 million demand for compensation, including tv and sponsorship rights, from the BCCI was reportedly provoked by a new agreement signed by Wavell Hinds, chief of the WIPA, without the involvement of major players, significantly Dwayne Bravo, and was regarded as effectively cutting players' payments dramatically. There is now a small group appointed to deal with the BCCI demands, which will not be easy. It is one thing for the WICB to agree, belatedly, to meet the claims of the players but it will be much harder either to convince BCCI not to pursue what it regards as legitimate demands for compensation, or for such a large claim to be met by a Board that has had difficulty finding enough money to keep it's domestic game afloat in recent years. |
|
|
|
Post by Wicked Cricket on Nov 4, 2014 14:50:49 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by flashblade on Nov 4, 2014 15:08:28 GMT
"Brian Lara says West Indies will survive India legal action" Well, he's obliged to say something positive, I guess. |
|
