|
Post by devonexile on Sept 22, 2023 12:14:58 GMT
But have we got the finances to be patient and carry them all if we want to build a competitive balanced squad Realab? At some point, decisions need to be taken as to cutting some loose and freeing up space in the squad. Hunt is one example of where 21 or not, can we continue with him and Crocombe, Adkin, Currie? Others may disagree, for me pick your best one or two and release the others. Same with our spinning options and our young batters. We need to rebalance the squad that over the past few seasons has become over reliant on promising youngsters. All sounds good on paper but where are all these replacements coming from? There’s not a big list of experienced players waiting for a county to sign them. It would have to be a gradual process Joe, firstly because as you quite correctly point out the difficulties around recruitment and secondly because of the contractual obligations the club currently has towards the present playing squad. With professional sport everyone wants immediate success, like it or not, I fear from where we currently are to where we want to get to is only achievable over a number of seasons. I think we all got slightly carried away with the appointment of Farbrace and over confidence in this group that promotion this season was a realistic ambition. Quite clearly it wasn't and without a significant overhaul in the playing squad, which as you quite rightly point out is difficult given the paucity of quality experienced options available we need to be patient. We need to be smarter not just around recruitment but also when it comes to handing out contract renewals (not just to the younger members of the squad). We have all expressed fear about some of this young group being cherry picked by other counties, but realistically how many at present would be of real interest? Offering Robinson just one year was a smart move. Wright two years correct. Crocombe two years the jury is out. Carson three years, I am not convinced. If the last two are still getting twenty wickets a season at over 35 with a strike rate around 100 and economy of 4.5 in two year's time, do we carry on rolling the dice or finally call time? Coming at this from a different angle, excluding overseas and centrally contracted players who have represented Sussex this season, if you had a blank sheet of paper who from that group do you really feel have the ability to be part of a squad capable of forming a competitive side going forward? I am not talking potential, I am talking you feel they are good enough. I can come up with seven names and most of those have performed well below expectation this season. I suspect some on this forum would struggle to name seven, others may feel I am being harsh. Again, I repeat players who at present we are confident can be part of a successful competitive squad, not who may develop over time. Notwithstanding all the above the first task is to find a captain who has tactical nous and who can demonstrate leadership on the pitch. If there was any doubt and I don't believe there was then the debacle in the Leicestershire match last week answered that question definitively. I watched Lewis Hill (who??) in the One Day Cup Final for Leicestershire. Better than anything I have seen from the procession of Captain's we have paraded throughout the current campaign and hardly a household name. It can be done, it just takes time.
|
|
|
Post by squarepoint on Sept 22, 2023 12:50:50 GMT
Not all of us thought promotion was a realistic objective for this season Devon but I guess we all got excited by that winning start against Durham.
To respond to your challenge, I feel Haines, Orr, Clark, Coles, Carter, FHP, Karvelas and Carson (just about) have all proven their capability at times. The problem has been consistency and delivery at the critical moments. Obviously you could add Robinson and Archer to the list on the rare occasions they’re available to us.
I’ve excluded Garton, who I’ve written off. If anyone wants to take him off our hands, they’re welcome to him after the attitude he’s shown this season.
If we can keep developing that core group, bring in a few strong reinforcements, recruit our overseas players wisely (Pujara + McAndrew/Unadkat would suit me fine for next year) and bring a couple more youngsters through (particularly Ibrahim) we should be okay. Lots of components to that list which all need to work though).
|
|
|
Post by therealab1 on Sept 22, 2023 13:07:28 GMT
All sounds good on paper but where are all these replacements coming from? There’s not a big list of experienced players waiting for a county to sign them. It would have to be a gradual process Joe, firstly because as you quite correctly point out the difficulties around recruitment and secondly because of the contractual obligations the club currently has towards the present playing squad. With professional sport everyone wants immediate success, like it or not, I fear from where we currently are to where we want to get to is only achievable over a number of seasons. I think we all got slightly carried away with the appointment of Farbrace and over confidence in this group that promotion this season was a realistic ambition. Quite clearly it wasn't and without a significant overhaul in the playing squad, which as you quite rightly point out is difficult given the paucity of quality experienced options available we need to be patient. We need to be smarter not just around recruitment but also when it comes to handing out contract renewals (not just to the younger members of the squad). We have all expressed fear about some of this young group being cherry picked by other counties, but realistically how many at present would be of real interest? Offering Robinson just one year was a smart move. Wright two years correct. Crocombe two years the jury is out. Carson three years, I am not convinced. If the last two are still getting twenty wickets a season at over 35 with a strike rate around 100 and economy of 4.5 in two year's time, do we carry on rolling the dice or finally call time? Coming at this from a different angle, excluding overseas and centrally contracted players who have represented Sussex this season, if you had a blank sheet of paper who from that group do you really feel have the ability to be part of a squad capable of forming a competitive side going forward? I am not talking potential, I am talking you feel they are good enough. I can come up with seven names and most of those have performed well below expectation this season. I suspect some on this forum would struggle to name seven, others may feel I am being harsh. Again, I repeat players who at present we are confident can be part of a successful competitive squad, not who may develop over time. Notwithstanding all the above the first task is to find a captain who has tactical nous and who can demonstrate leadership on the pitch. If there was any doubt and I don't believe there was then the debacle in the Leicestershire match last week answered that question definitively. I watched Lewis Hill (who??) in the One Day Cup Final for Leicestershire. Better than anything I have seen from the procession of Captain's we have paraded throughout the current campaign and hardly a household name. It can be done, it just takes time. I've got 9 who can contribute to a competitive SQUAD as you said. Haines Alsop Carson Carter Coles FHP Ibrahim Karvelas Orr You then chuck in your 2 overseas and Ollie, Garton as he is currently part of the squad. Lamb and Wright incoming. You have an 11 thats competitive, bear in mind we have only lost 1 Championship match this season at Durham. If you then whack in say a Nick Browne and a Samit Patel as examples and then all of a sudden you have a strong side. It's not all doom and gloom that some want to portray. 1 thing that has saddened me is the bloke we call Permatan, Paul i think his name is always sits left of the sightscreen, no longer goes to the games for some kind of political reason. Feels like Ravens leaving the Tower to me!!
|
|
|
Post by devonexile on Sept 22, 2023 13:19:18 GMT
Not all of us thought promotion was a realistic objective for this season Devon but I guess we all got excited by that winning start against Durham. To respond to your challenge, I feel Haines, Orr, Clark, Coles, Carter, FHP, Karvelas and Carson (just about) have all proven their capability at times. The problem has been consistency and delivery at the critical moments. Obviously you could add Robinson and Archer to the list on the rare occasions they’re available to us. I’ve excluded Garton, who I’ve written off. If anyone wants to take him off our hands, they’re welcome to him after the attitude he’s shown this season. If we can keep developing that core group, bring in a few strong reinforcements, recruit our overseas players wisely (Pujara + McAndrew/Unadkat would suit me fine for next year) and bring a couple more youngsters through (particularly Ibrahim) we should be okay. Lots of components to that list which all need to work though). Well done SP, you correctly identified six of my seven, Clark needs to turn his starts into scores and Carson still doesn't convince me, even less so following his antics against Leicestershire. Alsop is my seventh, a poor season, but still a good signing and he will come good again. Just for clarity, with a few exceptions I am not automatically writing off the others, but at present they need to show improvement if they have a future at Sussex. Garton completely agree, no point having someone who is never available. Time to part ways. I thought the Durham Coach Ryan Campbell made a very good point when he was on commentary in our recent game against them. They plan for their season on the basis their centrally contracted players (Stokes and Wood) will be unavailable all season. We need to do likewise as opposed to our current planning in gambling they will be available at certain points to bolster our attack. The primary difference being of course Durham have a squad strong enough to still be able to compete without them. Still need a captain!!
|
|
|
Post by devonexile on Sept 22, 2023 13:27:46 GMT
We are not far apart Realab. You picked my seven.
Ibrahim not there yet, but definitely one I would persist with, particularly as I don't feel he has been given as many opportunities as he has deserved this season.
Carson, still has a lot more to do for me. I just can't see what everyone else does, but I suppose that is the beauty of this forum. I just don't feel he is of the required quality at present to be our senior spinner. Maybe in time, but an area we need to strengthen.
Garton we will have to agree to differ. Unlucky with injuries, but has had his chance, likely to end up on the one day franchise circuit.
|
|
|
Post by squarepoint on Sept 22, 2023 14:08:01 GMT
Not all of us thought promotion was a realistic objective for this season Devon but I guess we all got excited by that winning start against Durham. To respond to your challenge, I feel Haines, Orr, Clark, Coles, Carter, FHP, Karvelas and Carson (just about) have all proven their capability at times. The problem has been consistency and delivery at the critical moments. Obviously you could add Robinson and Archer to the list on the rare occasions they’re available to us. I’ve excluded Garton, who I’ve written off. If anyone wants to take him off our hands, they’re welcome to him after the attitude he’s shown this season. If we can keep developing that core group, bring in a few strong reinforcements, recruit our overseas players wisely (Pujara + McAndrew/Unadkat would suit me fine for next year) and bring a couple more youngsters through (particularly Ibrahim) we should be okay. Lots of components to that list which all need to work though). Well done SP, you correctly identified six of my seven, Clark needs to turn his starts into scores and Carson still doesn't convince me, even less so following his antics against Leicestershire. Alsop is my seventh, a poor season, but still a good signing and he will come good again. Just for clarity, with a few exceptions I am not automatically writing off the others, but at present they need to show improvement if they have a future at Sussex. Garton completely agree, no point having someone who is never available. Time to part ways. I thought the Durham Coach Ryan Campbell made a very good point when he was on commentary in our recent game against them. They plan for their season on the basis their centrally contracted players (Stokes and Wood) will be unavailable all season. We need to do likewise as opposed to our current planning in gambling they will be available at certain points to bolster our attack. The primary difference being of course Durham have a squad strong enough to still be able to compete without them. Still need a captain!! Yes I forgot Alsop for some reason. He’s also probably our best bet for captain until someone else emerges.
|
|
|
Post by joe on Sept 22, 2023 14:12:59 GMT
Bit harsh on Garton Squarepoint. Played the first game of the season but went off with concussion and was replaced by FHP who had a good game and was rightly kept in the squad. Garton was then not selected even though he was fit to play. I’d rate Garton above Crocombe, Hunt, Currie and Karvelas and I’ll be sad to see him go.
My pick of those to hang on to is, Orr, Haines, Coles, Carter, FHP and Karvelas. The rest need to improve in the 2’s for a season and got rid of if they haven’t improved.
|
|
|
Post by yikemardy on Sept 22, 2023 14:33:34 GMT
Just listened to Farbrace interview, sounds like wholesale changes upcoming, many players should be afraid, he is quite clear, they are not learning, and if they can’t or won’t learn then they have no future at Sussex, and if they aren’t good enough for Sussex then it’s back to amateur cricket for them, no other county will be lining up to sign them. The serial underperformers don’t need to be afraid, as they are probably on long term contracts. Jon Filby talked recently about Archie Lenham staying at the club (I believe his contract is coming to an end). That’s nice, but if Archie has done enough to stay where do you draw the line? Certainly Jamie Atkins will be here next year, Eventhough the club has clearly seen enough of him. Basically, club leaders have talked big about a clear out, but they’ve made it impossible for it to happen.
|
|
|
Post by yikemardy on Sept 22, 2023 14:41:24 GMT
Ibrahim is a classic case of player who needs a season or two in the seconds. That’s where he can develop into a decent allrounder. If persevering with him amounts to chucking him in the first team, hoping for the best, then I doubt it will work.
|
|
|
Post by joe on Sept 22, 2023 14:44:05 GMT
Jon Filby is a wet blanket and talks like a politician, not the sort of person you want to head up a sporting organisation. Andrew and Filby would both be on my hit list.
|
|
|
Post by yikemardy on Sept 22, 2023 16:00:29 GMT
Sussex denied by the weather. Match drawn.
|
|
j
2nd XI player
Posts: 107
|
Post by j on Sept 22, 2023 20:09:49 GMT
Jon Filby is a wet blanket and talks like a politician, not the sort of person you want to head up a sporting organisation. Andrew and Filby would both be on my hit list. Agree. Filby seems to get a free pass from a lot of people as he's a "good Sussex man" *violently vomits. Filby is just as culpable in this mess as anyone else. He's got the ability to enforce a possible removal of Andrew but instead he's become his puppet. The interview on BBC Sussex a few weeks ago told me all I need to know about the man. Quick to pass on the responsibility of results to 'the cricket committee', but more than happy to sit there and claim credit for things such as the supposed “strong financial position” which he loves telling everyone about. His snappy responses towards Harms and the punters when he was challenged on some of his responses said it all. Not someone you'd want to approach and have a reasonable chat with, as he'd just shut you down as soon as heard something he didn't like. Get him gone, along with Andrew, Harms, Kirtley, and most of the playing squad.
|
|
|
Post by joe on Sept 23, 2023 12:05:39 GMT
Just when you think it can’t get any worse we are docked a point for our slow over rate.
That’s 17 points we’ve lost so far this season.
|
|
Rob
2nd XI player
Posts: 60
|
Post by Rob on Sept 23, 2023 20:45:07 GMT
Just when you think it can’t get any worse we are docked a point for our slow over rate. That’s 17 points we’ve lost so far this season. This slow over rate is truly inexcusable
|
|
|
Post by sussexman on Sept 27, 2023 21:47:52 GMT
I thought all the flats had been sold. Are we talking about the commercial office space within the apartment block? Little has been sold? Garton going? Not surprised. The club situation is now far worse than 1996. Sussex is becoming a laughing stock amongst the other 17 counties. As close as i can give. This issue was brought forward by the panel at today’s members forum. Apparently the club were close to signing a contract which would generate £300kpa for the office space. Deal collapsed. RA said he was confident they would sublet the space, either in one block, or through smaller lots. I am not a property expert, but would guess office space has a reduced value post covid, with far more people now working at home. so club May have to adjust its expectations. I am not a fan of RA, but not sure why you suggest he should resign over this realab?
|
|