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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 10:01:41 GMT
The rebellion against Moores' stats-obsessed methods - epitomised by Morgan's daft "309 was brilliant, 25 runs above par" comments - continues to grow after Broad disowned his coach's approach and announced he wasn't going to take any notice of all that malarkey any more.
Ian Bell: "Personally, I don’t pay too much attention to data and past records ... You can look at what the past six one-day scores are at a certain ground but, as we saw in Wellington at the weekend, sometimes that won’t tell the full picture."
Jos Buttler: "The best thing we can do in one day cricket is use our instinct, use our initiative and back ourselves to read the game.We'd be doing ourselves an injustice to get to caught up in numbers."
I'd say Moores' hold on the dressing room is growing ever more precarious and the day when Graves decides to replace him with Jason Gillespie gets nearer every time an England player opens his mouth to distance himself from the coach and his army of expensive laptop analysts.
Meanwhile, vice-captain Buttler reckons England's match-winning secret weapon is Alex Hales: "He's got that X-factor. It's something that's exciting when he walks to the crease. It's exciting to watch. He can take the game away from a team."
So why did Moores and Morgan refuse to pick him for England's first four games ?
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maxh
2nd XI player
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Post by maxh on Mar 6, 2015 10:43:22 GMT
Who knows. I'd also like to know why James Taylor was ignored for so long and why a hideously out of form batsman was made captain.
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Post by irishexile on Mar 6, 2015 13:44:25 GMT
The rebellion against Moores' stats-obsessed methods - epitomised by Morgan's daft "309 was brilliant, 25 runs above par" comments - continues to grow after Broad disowned his coach's approach and announced he wasn't going to take any notice of all that malarkey any more. Ian Bell: "Personally, I don’t pay too much attention to data and past records ... You can look at what the past six one-day scores are at a certain ground but, as we saw in Wellington at the weekend, sometimes that won’t tell the full picture." Jos Buttler: "The best thing we can do in one day cricket is use our instinct, use our initiative and back ourselves to read the game.We'd be doing ourselves an injustice to get to caught up in numbers." I'd say Moores' hold on the dressing room is growing ever more precarious and the day when Graves decides to replace him with Jason Gillespie gets nearer every time an England player opens his mouth to distance himself from the coach and his army of expensive laptop analysts. Meanwhile, vice-captain Buttler reckons England's match-winning secret weapon is Alex Hales: "He's got that X-factor. It's something that's exciting when he walks to the crease. It's exciting to watch. He can take the game away from a team." So why did Moores and Morgan refuse to pick him for England's first four games ? Interesting that I don't recall any issue with a stats-based approach when England were winning games of cricket under Moores.
The reality is that stats give you a snapshot of past performances - they have no bearing on the future - and players would do well to remember that. The challenge is to balance the trends that stats can highlight, with players using their nous on the field. So if England score 320 for a 30 above par score, the approach needs to be to do everything possible to defend 320 and not take feet off the pedal simply because they feel they have a winning score. After all, a par score is simply an average of above par and below par scores.
Having said all of that, I think analysts the world over will finish the world cup with a collective shrug of the shoulders and wonder what to do going forward. The number of 300+ scores (400+ scores!) is simply mind-boggling.
In terms of Moores' position, I have often wondered why it is that with world cricket working in 4-year cycles towards each WC, PM was brought in with a year to go to the WC - so three years into the existing cycle. In much the same that Morgan's elevation to captain was arguably made far too late for him to be able to do a proper job, was PM thrown in relatively late in the cycle?
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Post by flashblade on Mar 6, 2015 14:34:51 GMT
The rebellion against Moores' stats-obsessed methods - epitomised by Morgan's daft "309 was brilliant, 25 runs above par" comments - continues to grow after Broad disowned his coach's approach and announced he wasn't going to take any notice of all that malarkey any more. Ian Bell: "Personally, I don’t pay too much attention to data and past records ... You can look at what the past six one-day scores are at a certain ground but, as we saw in Wellington at the weekend, sometimes that won’t tell the full picture." Jos Buttler: "The best thing we can do in one day cricket is use our instinct, use our initiative and back ourselves to read the game.We'd be doing ourselves an injustice to get to caught up in numbers." I'd say Moores' hold on the dressing room is growing ever more precarious and the day when Graves decides to replace him with Jason Gillespie gets nearer every time an England player opens his mouth to distance himself from the coach and his army of expensive laptop analysts. Meanwhile, vice-captain Buttler reckons England's match-winning secret weapon is Alex Hales: "He's got that X-factor. It's something that's exciting when he walks to the crease. It's exciting to watch. He can take the game away from a team." So why did Moores and Morgan refuse to pick him for England's first four games ? Interesting that I don't recall any issue with a stats-based approach when England were winning games of cricket under Moores.
The reality is that stats give you a snapshot of past performances - they have no bearing on the future - and players would do well to remember that. The challenge is to balance the trends that stats can highlight, with players using their nous on the field. So if England score 320 for a 30 above par score, the approach needs to be to do everything possible to defend 320 and not take feet off the pedal simply because they feel they have a winning score. After all, a par score is simply an average of above par and below par scores.
Surely you'd defend the total to the best of your ability whatever it was?
Having said all of that, I think analysts the world over will finish the world cup with a collective shrug of the shoulders and wonder what to do going forward. The number of 300+ scores (400+ scores!) is simply mind-boggling.
In terms of Moores' position, I have often wondered why it is that with world cricket working in 4-year cycles towards each WC, PM was brought in with a year to go to the WC - so three years into the existing cycle. In much the same that Morgan's elevation to captain was arguably made far too late for him to be able to do a proper job, was PM thrown in relatively late in the cycle?
Neither Moores' nor Morgan's appointments were planned. They both resulted as a result of the failure of their respective predecessors.
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Post by irishexile on Mar 6, 2015 16:11:56 GMT
Surely you'd defend the total to the best of your ability whatever it was?
- I agree. Perhaps I didn't clarify well enough. Whether you're 100 above par or 100 below par, you should defend your score however it compares to an average. I got the feeling from the post-match comments that England were (almost) content to have scored above par and were therefore unlucky to have been beaten. Didn't sit right with me that's all.
Neither Moores' nor Morgan's appointments were planned. They both resulted as a result of the failure of their respective predecessors.
- I agree again. But there is talk out there about how Moores should go if England don't make a good account of themselves. I'm just putting the counter-argument that given he was appointed late in the four-year cycle would it be better to let him stay in post and give him the next four year cycle to allow the best chance of success?
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Post by hhsussex on Mar 7, 2015 7:17:10 GMT
Interesting games at Auckland, where South Africa are 5 wickets down against Pakistan, and Hobart, where Ireland have reached 331-8 off 50 overs, with Ed Joyce scoring 112, against Zimbabwe. Wins for both teams here would set Ireland up for qualification to go through to the quarter finals with perhaps a showdown match against Pakistan on 15 March. On the other hand Duminy and de Villiers are at the crease with 138 wanted and 28 overs to get them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2015 9:00:12 GMT
Interesting games at Auckland, where South Africa are 5 wickets down against Pakistan, and Hobart, where Ireland have reached 331-8 off 50 overs, with Ed Joyce scoring 112, against Zimbabwe. Wins for both teams here would set Ireland up for qualification to go through to the quarter finals with perhaps a showdown match against Pakistan on 15 March. On the other hand Duminy and de Villiers are at the crease with 138 wanted and 28 overs to get them. It looks increasingly likely that Ireland will have to beat Pakistan on the final day of the group stage to go through ahead of West Indies. Windies will surely beat UAE to finish on six points. Assuming Ireland defeat Zim, they will be on six points with India and Pakistan still to play. You'd have to give them no chance against India and unless they defeat Pakistan they will end level with Windies on six points, but almost certainly with a worse net run rate. If they then beat Pakistan they would go through, with the fourth place between Pakistan and West Indies on NRR. The group stage has been far too long, in my view - but it if ends with a must-win thriller then it will at least have reached a dramatic climax - which is more than we expected as the system appeared to have been rigged to ensure the leading eight Test playing countries go through. The only results that can prevent it going to the last game is for UAE to defeat Windies or Ireland to beat India, neither of which is remotely likely. My best bet: Pakistan have hit form at the right time and Ireland's weak bowling attack will be inadequate to beat them, allowing Windies to sneak through on NRR and Ireland to go gome with their heads held high. |
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Post by hhsussex on Mar 7, 2015 9:13:23 GMT
Interesting games at Auckland, where South Africa are 5 wickets down against Pakistan, and Hobart, where Ireland have reached 331-8 off 50 overs, with Ed Joyce scoring 112, against Zimbabwe. Wins for both teams here would set Ireland up for qualification to go through to the quarter finals with perhaps a showdown match against Pakistan on 15 March. On the other hand Duminy and de Villiers are at the crease with 138 wanted and 28 overs to get them. It looks increasingly likely that Ireland will have to beat Pakistan on the final day of the group stage to go through ahead of West Indies. Windies will surely beat UAE to finish on six points. Assuming Ireland defeat Zim, they will be on six points with India and Pakistan still to play. You'd have to give them no chance against India and unless they defeat Pakistan they will end level with Windies on six points, but almost certainly with a worse net run rate. If they then beat Pakistan they would go through, with the fourth place between Pakistan and West Indies on NRR. The group stage has been far too long, in my view - but it if ends with a must-win thriller then it will at least have reached a dramatic climax - which is more than we expected as the system appeared to have been rigged to ensure the leading eight Test playing countries go through. The only results that can prevent it going to the last game is for UAE to defeat Windies or Ireland to beat India, neither of which is remotely likely. My best bet: Pakistan have hit form at the right time and Ireland's weak bowling attack will be inadequate to beat them, allowing Windies to sneak through on NRR and Ireland to go gome with their heads held high. I agree, and logic is with you, but this is a format where one chance mistake by a key player - or stroke of fortune by a lesser one - can trigger unorthdox events. Dreadful to have to choose between West Indies and Ireland, and my admiration for Pakistan, and for Misbah in particular, is enormous after their apalling start. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2015 10:17:45 GMT
At 204-4, Zim could be about to upset all the calculations above!
Advatage still with Ireland, I think, with only 14 overs to go - but when their attack relies on batsmen-who-turn-their-arm-a-bit like Stirling and O'Brien, there will be a few butterflies in Irish stomachs right now...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2015 11:35:06 GMT
Wow - perhaps the best game of the World Cup so far.
Well done, Ireland and man of the match Joyce. But talk about the luck of the Irish. Williams was caught on the boundary with 19 balls remaining and walked off. By the time the replays suggested that Mooney's boot had just touched the rope in completing the catch and it should have been given as six, Williams was already in the shower!
But I fear this weak Irish attack is going to really struggle against India and Pakistan...although they're now talking rain for their game v India on Tuesday, which would take Ireland through. Who'd have thought it...
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Mar 7, 2015 11:36:48 GMT
Brilliant, brilliant - well done to Ireland - well done to Ed Joyce - and well done to the Irish radio commentator for
not having a heart attack.
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Post by coverpoint on Mar 8, 2015 4:53:10 GMT
No Dilshan, Sangakkara, Jayawardene, Herath or Malinga at the next world cup. What will the team be?
Thirimanne
Tharanga
Matthews *
Chandimal (+)
Karunaratne
Vithange
Pereira
Prasanna
Kulesekara
Senanayake
Lakmal
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Post by coverpoint on Mar 8, 2015 10:20:07 GMT
NO BALL! Why should the bowler get the benefit of the doubt if his foot is on the line? The same goes for Dilshan's dismissal.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 7:16:13 GMT
Bangladesh will have to bowl England out to prevent them reaching 276. Can't see that happening, so Engish hopes should stay alive into the final match.
We still can't take wkts in the middle overs, but much better at the end, esp. from Chris Jordan.
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Post by hhsussex on Mar 9, 2015 7:20:41 GMT
Bangladesh will have to bowl England out to prevent them reaching 276. Can't see that happening, so Engish hopes should stay alive into the final match. We still can't take wkts in the middle overs, but much better at the end, esp. from Chris Jordan. And still somehow, with Anderson finding his form again, we managed to give Woakes the last over for another 10 runs. I think too little, too late. |
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