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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 17:35:53 GMT
Rather good and balanced piece by Dobell on cricinfo :- www.espncricinfo.com/review2014/content/story/813311.htmlAt least it is good and balanced until the very end, when he loses focus by wittering on yet again about the Indian fans at Edgbaston being "a depressing snapshot of modern multicultural Britain" as he attempts to revive Norman Tebbit's 'cricket test'. He got himelf into real hot water over this on Twitter and on Cricinfo at the time and although I doubt that his intention is to play into the hands of UKIP and the xenophobes, that's what he's doing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 18:14:08 GMT
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Post by flashblade on Dec 27, 2014 18:32:52 GMT
Rather good and balanced piece by Dobell on cricinfo :- www.espncricinfo.com/review2014/content/story/813311.htmlAt least it is good and balanced until the very end, when he loses focus by wittering on yet again about the Indian fans at Edgbaston being "a depressing snapshot of modern multicultural Britain" as he attempts to revive Norman Tebbit's 'cricket test'. He got himelf into real hot water over this on Twitter and on Cricinfo at the time and although I doubt that his intention is to play into the hands of UKIP and the xenophobes, that's what he's doing. I didn't think GB was trying to take the Tebbit view. I thought GB found it depressing that the Anglo-Indian fans at the ground were booing Moeen Ali because they resented him playing for England. If that was the case then I also find it depressing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 19:52:53 GMT
Indians boo English cricketer of Pakistani extraction?
Since partition in 1947, there have been four full-scale wars between India and Pakistan and the bloodshed between them has been glorified in Bollywood and Lollywood films alike.
The cause of the wars is invariably Kashmir and Birmingham is a flashpoint for that conflict as it has the highest concetration of Kashmiris anywhere in the world outside the sub-continent. It's the city where the terrorist Kashmir Liberation Front was founded and after the Front had murdered an Indian politician on the streets on Birmigham in the 1980s, its leaders found refuge in Pakistan.
So of course there is tension between British-Indians and British-Pakistanis and it takes the nuance of a diplomat rather than the blunderings of a sports writer to tiptoe through the minefield - particularly when that minefield is littered with other unexploded bombs laballed racism, multi-culturalism, UKIP and Norman Tebbit's cricket test.
Booing anyone on a cricket ground is poor behaviour - including the English fans who consistently booed Jadeja last summer and the Indian fans who booed not only Moeen but also James Anderson. It might have just been pantomime villain stuff or it might have been more serious. Either way, it is irresponsible for those who know little about the ethnic politics involved to draw sweeping conclusions about the failure of multi-culturalism in modern Britain based on nothing more than their own assumptions.
Neither, it should be added, is there anything wrong with second and third generation migrants supporting the country of their origin against the country they live in (which was what Tebbit objected to, of course). But I'd say it would be wise for cricket writers to eschew saloon bar sociology and condemn booing in general on all sides without throwing around unprovable aspersions about its allegedly racist motivation.
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Post by gerryshedd on Dec 29, 2014 12:14:04 GMT
Thank heavens for those cricket writers who occasionally write about life, the universe and everything outside the narrow world of cricket. It seems to me that there is a difference between booing someone because you don't like something you think they have done, as in the cases of Anderson and Jadeja and booing Moeen because of his ethnic origins and/or religion. To stay silent about that is to condone it and so I am supportive of what George Dobell wrote. If that makes me just another misguided saloon bar sociologist, so be it.
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Post by hhsussex on Dec 29, 2014 14:21:55 GMT
Coming late to this discussion, I don't know whether the booing of Moeen Ali at Edgbaston had at its root
a)Kashmiri tensions between the city's pro-Indian and pro-Pakistan groupings
b)Barracking by Warwickshire "supporters" aimed at a Worcestershire player
c)Too much beer consumed by people who got carried away with the crowd ethos, whether that was inspired by a), b) or some other fatuity.
I haven't yet seen any report of this disturbance that has proved positively the cause, so I would have some sympathy with drawing easy conslusions from its observed effects. I, too, welcome any writer with the gift of relating what happens on a cricket pitch or the arenas in which it is played to the tensions and insights of a wider world view. That doesn't seem to have happened in the piece that is quoted here, but if no-one can throw any more light on this episode then we have to conclude that "'tis all a muddle" and move on.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2014 16:12:14 GMT
Thank heavens for those cricket writers who occasionally write about life, the universe and everything outside the narrow world of cricket. It seems to me that there is a difference between booing someone because you don't like something you think they have done, as in the cases of Anderson and Jadeja and booing Moeen because of his ethnic origins and/or religion. To stay silent about that is to condone it and so I am supportive of what George Dobell wrote. If that makes me just another misguided saloon bar sociologist, so be it. How do you know that was the reason? The fact is we don't know, so to stay silent is not to condone anything, is it? Which is the view the ECB quite properly and correctly took. As for "cricket writers who occasionally write about life, the universe and everything outside the narrow world of cricket", CLR James was insightful on politics, Arlott was good on wine. Ed Smith is a Times leader writer and Atherton wrote a well-reviewed book about gambling. But otherwise on non-cricketing subjects such as the failure of multi-culturalism in modern Britain I'd rather read the nuanced writing of Matthew Parris, Simon Jenkins, Polly Toynbee, Darcus Howe, Will Hutton, Tariq Ali, Seuemas Milne, Yasmin Alibhai-Brown et al than the uninformed and simplistic assumptions of a junior reporter on cricinfo (who in any case was only really interested in making a mountain out of a few boos because it gave him another rhetorical stick to beat the ECB with).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2014 16:48:10 GMT
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Post by hhsussex on Dec 29, 2014 17:11:31 GMT
In fairness to Dobell, that list is some nameless ESPN staffer's anthology of "worst moments", culled from at least 10 minutes research. It's a pretty pointless anthology as well: surely if they were going to credit the individual writers there should have been links to the original articles? ESPN now has the lion's share of the market, all but a few broadsheets having retired completely from any kind of analysis or reportage of cricket. It can throw up good stories from time to time, and writers such as Tim Wigmore and David Hopps who are credited in this list are goof examples, but all too often it reeks of "will this do?"
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Post by flashblade on Dec 29, 2014 17:20:38 GMT
I have to say, BM, that you don't seem to criticise other cricket writers with the same forensic intensity that you apply to GD's writings. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall you telling us once that you'd fallen out with GD (or crossed swords with him, or whatever) in real life. If this is the case, then you give the appearance of waging a private vendetta on a public MB. Perhaps we could have a New Year truce, please? All journalists write the occasional bad line, but life's too short to lambast all of them so vigorously - and it's not fair to just pick on the one you seem to dislike!
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Dec 29, 2014 20:33:33 GMT
At No.4 and it's kudos to Sussex and Andy Mackay. Vith... Attended all four days of that wonderful Warwickshire match whilst In the media tent and was praising the pitch then. The two Festival matches in 2014 could not have been more opposite with their pitch conditions and one hopes Horsham can get their financial act together for 2015 whilst Arundel improve their top.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2014 20:43:34 GMT
In fairness to Dobell, that list is some nameless ESPN staffer's anthology of "worst moments", culled from at least 10 minutes research. It's a pretty pointless anthology as well: surely if they were going to credit the individual writers there should have been links to the original articles? ESPN now has the lion's share of the market, all but a few broadsheets having retired completely from any kind of analysis or reportage of cricket. It can throw up good stories from time to time, and writers such as Tim Wigmore and David Hopps who are credited in this list are goof examples, but all too often it reeks of "will this do?" No, it's not a nameless intern's anthology - seven cricinfo writers were asked to nominate the 'worst moment of the year' and that bonehead nominated a few Indian boos for Moeen and then derives from the incident an entire theory about the failure of multi-culturalism. Apart from the Kashmiri issue which has such resonance among the Birmingham Asian community, it has never occured to him to ask why they went for Moeen and didn't give Bopara anything like such vociferous treatment, which rather suggests it was personal rather than racist. Derek Pringle identified the reason at the time:- "It was probably his (Moeen's) suggestion that British Asians pass the “Tebbit Test,” and support the country they live in rather than the one of their or their parents’ birth, that may have been behind the recent animosity towards him." www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/11083162/Reasons-behind-booing-of-Moeen-Ali-at-Edgbaston-but-why-England-all-rounder-will-not-let-distractions-affect-focus.html Of the "worst moments", the one with the most serious long-term implications is probably Hopps' nomination (no 7) of the decline in recreational cricket which is ultimately what will kill cricket as a national sport. We went to Harlequins v Northampton at Twickenham on Sat and there were 82,000 there. Hard not to conclude that cricket is below not only football and athletics in popularity but is now below rugby union, too.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2014 20:52:24 GMT
I have to say, BM, that you don't seem to criticise other cricket writers with the same forensic intensity None of the other excellent writers on cricinfo come up with such utter tabloid trash. Hopps, McGlashan, Vishun E, Winter, Gardner and young Wigmore are thoughtful and smart writers who are a credit to the profession of journalism. But Dobell is the Russell Brand of cricket writing. Only less funny.
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Post by hhsussex on Dec 29, 2014 21:24:48 GMT
It reads to me like a bit of scissors and paste: "ESPNcricinfo writers look back at their worst moments in English cricket in 2014 ESPNcricinfo staff". But anyway, no argument, Dobell was lazy and went for a quick and rather cheap conclusion: it was all the fault of a [failed] multicultural agenda. Pringle's analysis isn't much better: "On the other hand it may have something to do with the complexities of being a British Asian in the post Commonwealth age, from supporting the cricket teams of your forefathers to waging jihad in the Levant. "
Both of these are lazy and needlessly speculative. Why shouldn't the booing have been thuggish, football-style "fans" who'd had too much to drink on a hot day, finding a figure of fun (Oh look, a bloke with a funny beard!) and giving in to the collective hysteria? What evidence is there in either analysis that the reporter has spoken to individuals, made connections and learnt fom that experience to interpret it to others?
And jolly good to read that 82, 000 saw Harlequins v Northampton at Twickenham, but just to put that in perspective, Harlequins attendance figures for the whole season to date are 148, 000 in total, and London Welsh, at the foot of the Division but still at the top of the pyramid - a bit like Northants in the County Championship last summer - have only 16, 000 spectators in total. Put the big games on at nig centres and you'll get big crowds, rather like Middlesex and Surrey getting 27, 000 for an otherwise meaningless, in terms of league standings, T20 match. Cricket's grass roots decline is actually paralleled by a decline in rugby union support and attendances at club level, even in its prosperous, suburban, heartlands.
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Post by gerryshedd on Dec 30, 2014 11:02:22 GMT
I think there is much missing of the point here. Sure, the booing of Moeen was personal - but personal because he is of Pakistani origin (despite a white English grandmother) and identifiably a Muslim. Sure, beer may have had something to do with it, in that it loosens inhibitions and exaggerates prejudices. As for the suggestion that it was Warwickshire supporters booing a Worcestershire man, that ignores the fact that Moeen is held in high esteem by virtually all Warwickshire fans. To take metaphors from another religion, he is the prodigal son who has not yet returned, the lost sheep that Dougie the good shepherd will one day bring back to the fold. I have to declare my interest in this - I know George Dobell pretty well (he's slept on my floor!) and have sat next to him in the press box numerous times. I don't agree with everything he writes but on this issue, I think he's called it correctly. As for Derek Pringle, I deplore the sackings of so many journalists in the last few years but I'm very tempted to make an exception in the case of Mr. P.
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