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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 15:22:55 GMT
There has not been a millisecond of the last four days when I thought we might lose this match. At eight wkts down with 88 still required to save the follow-on, you must have been the only person on the ground who didn't entertain at least the possibility of an innings defeat! As for "It is literally impossible to bowl a half competent team out on this type of Hove pitch", how did we manage to get ourselves into such a pickle at 216-8, then? And how come you think Notts should have been 65-5 on day one? To quote Queen Gertrude in the 'play within a play' scene in Hamlet with gender suitably changed, "the gentleman doth protest too much, methinks!" |
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Post by jonfilby on Jun 4, 2014 15:30:21 GMT
There has not been a millisecond of the last four days when I thought we might lose this match. At eight wkts down with 88 still required to save the follow-on, you must have been the only person on the ground who didn't entertain at least the possibility of an innings defeat! As for "It is literally impossible to bowl a half competent team out on this type of Hove pitch", how did we manage to get ourselves into such a pickle at 216-8, then? And how come you think Notts should have been 65-5 on day one? To quote Queen Gertrude in the 'play within a play' scene in Hamlet with gender suitably changed, "the gentleman doth protest too much, methinks!" Oh well. I have tried.
I was referring to bowling out a team in the second innings but did not make that clear. Sorry.
What is it about moisture in the pitch making batting harder that you don't accept?
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Post by jonfilby on Jun 4, 2014 15:35:45 GMT
You mean a game we would have won if we hadn't been cheated by the weather for the fourth time in seven matches this season? To say, even tongue in cheek, that we would have won this game if not for the weather is pushing it a bit, Notts were only 4 down in their second innings when they declared, no doubt with an eye on the very weather you allude to. I have to say I agree with the majority view that we should have batted first. I was willing it to rain all day but I'm glad now that the sun came out and Sussex's openers had a chance to show their class. I was willing the sun to beat down all day because if it had we would have had a great chance of victory, as clearly shown by the rate at which wickets have fallen and runs have been scored on this pitch since the fall of the 8th wicket in the Sussex first innings.
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Post by hhsussex on Jun 4, 2014 15:44:57 GMT
The highest 4th innings score of any match at Hove in the last 4 seasons was the 397 that Somerset made to beat us in 2012.The next highest was 312 when we lost to Durham in 2011. So expecting Sussex to make 434 runs against a very good and balanced attack really does call for some optimism. Shall we just accept that you have faith beyond the scope of reason?  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 15:45:04 GMT
To say, even tongue in cheek, that we would have won this game if not for the weather is pushing it a bit, Notts were only 4 down in their second innings when they declared, no doubt with an eye on the very weather you allude to. I have to say I agree with the majority view that we should have batted first. I was willing it to rain all day but I'm glad now that the sun came out and Sussex's openers had a chance to show their class. I was willing the sun to beat down all day because if it had we would have had a great chance of victory, as clearly shown by the rate at which wickets have fallen and runs have been scored on this pitch since the fall of the 8th wicket in the Sussex first innings.
I'm glad that you have finally accepted the thinking I set out on here at the close of day one as the only rationale for putting the opposition in. I wrote:-
"The attraction in winning the toss and bowling first on a good surface is that if you have a weakened attack and are not confident of taking 20 wkts against a mighty batting line-up such as Notts, then inserting the opposition may well be your only chance of winning, via a second innings declaration and then chasing a fourth day target. Providing you can avoid the follow-on, of course!" |
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Post by grandavefan on Jun 4, 2014 15:49:12 GMT
I think we're looking for cricket that will bring people in. Attacking, positive stuff.
What happened here was a little defensive, irrespective of the wicket. Team selection and the decision at the toss.
However Joyce as a player has shown his class, test class at the very least.
IMO his captaincy/tactics are lacking and are not what I would want. His leadership, lead from the front, has been the highest order.
Jon, we can have a moan. We do come and watch, I hope most do, pay our money.
Go to the theatre and you expect entertainment, if not you have a right to complain.
Cut you in half and you'll see SUSSEX CCC. You are doing a good job but read what we say. we're not always right, some good bits to think on.
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Post by jonfilby on Jun 4, 2014 15:52:20 GMT
The highest 4th innings score of any match at Hove in the last 4 seasons was the 397 that Somerset made to beat us in 2012.The next highest was 312 when we lost to Durham in 2011. So expecting Sussex to make 434 runs against a very good and balanced attack really does call for some optimism. Shall we just accept that you have faith beyond the scope of reason? And there's me labouring under the illusion that your thinking is nuanced.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 15:54:52 GMT
The highest 4th innings score of any match at Hove in the last 4 seasons was the 397 that Somerset made to beat us in 2012.The next highest was 312 when we lost to Durham in 2011. So expecting Sussex to make 434 runs against a very good and balanced attack really does call for some optimism. Shall we just accept that you have faith beyond the scope of reason? And there's me labouring under the illusion that your thinking is nuanced.
What does that mean? Far too profound and subtle for me, I'm afraid... |
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Post by hhsussex on Jun 4, 2014 16:00:27 GMT
The highest 4th innings score of any match at Hove in the last 4 seasons was the 397 that Somerset made to beat us in 2012.The next highest was 312 when we lost to Durham in 2011. So expecting Sussex to make 434 runs against a very good and balanced attack really does call for some optimism. Shall we just accept that you have faith beyond the scope of reason? And there's me labouring under the illusion that your thinking is nuanced.
Indeed the nuance was there, in the shape of the emoticon for a smile, to indicate that the subject really is exhausted and let us just let it lie, without contention. I'm just anxiously watching the scorecard to see that we don't lose any more wickets, and planning the trip to Arundel. |
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Post by jonfilby on Jun 4, 2014 16:02:10 GMT
I think we're looking for cricket that will bring people in. Attacking, positive stuff. What happened here was a little defensive, irrespective of the wicket. Team selection and the decision at the toss. However Joyce as a player has shown his class, test class at the very least. IMO his captaincy/tactics are lacking and are not what I would want. His leadership, lead from the front, has been the highest order. Jon, we can have a moan. We do come and watch, I hope most do, pay our money. Go to the theatre and you expect entertainment, if not you have a right to complain. Cut you in half and you'll see SUSSEX CCC. You are doing a good job but read what we say. we're not always right, some good bits to think on. Yes - you can moan.
I enjoy your moans and do try to learn from them. Thank you.
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Post by fraudster on Jun 4, 2014 17:05:06 GMT
Parsons you're such a 'company man' it's laughable. Most your responses sound like a Mother defending her son, or a politician's whipping boy slurping at his master's knees. This is an unofficial board, SCCC made sure of that, maybe you should try saying unofficial things. Although I see in your hast to defend your masters you dropped the groundsman in it - so what's with the s**t negative track? Is it in the spirit of the game to produce a pitch where a half competent side can't get bowled out?
Well done Nash and Wells, even if it was a piece of p**s.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 17:19:39 GMT
Dammit. Cheated by the weather. So unjust that Notts get one more point than us when were going to whip them but for the delayed start this morning!
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Jun 4, 2014 17:23:43 GMT
fraudster, Oh, leave it. You sound like Oliver seeking that second helping. Jon, is one of the most loyal Sussex supporters I have met. Of course he's going to be biased. The glass is half full etc.. It can be an imbalanced view at times, agreed, but I would prefer that to a regular wash of negativity at the team. At least, Sussex held their heads high as the batsmen left the field at 5pm, rather than sheepishly slink behind the 5 points if the day had been washed out. And thank god I didn't have to use that bum cream! |
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Post by hhsussex on Jun 4, 2014 18:03:47 GMT
CC matches at Hove 2011- 2014, including Notts game
Total 22 Sussex W 7, L6, D9 The luck of the tossWon toss and batted (8) Toss-winners W 2, L3, D3 Won toss and bowled (14) Toss-winners W7, L1, D6 Average scores per innings:
1st 319 (when toss-winners bowl first: 320; when toss-winners bowl 2nd: 318) 2nd 293 (when toss-winners have bowled first: 292; when toss-winners have batted first: 293) 3rd 288 (includes partially-completed games and innings) 4th 205 (includes partially-completed games and innings, average for all non-drawn matches 217) In other words: a result is more likely than a draw, but not by a huge margin; first and second innings scores are pretty consistent whover wins the toss and whatever they do after that. The third innings is critical....and if you get to a fourth, don't hold up your hopes in having to chase a big total. And one final set of stats - Restricting it to last year and this, 8 out of 10 toss-winners have chosen to bowl. Sussex have W1, L1, D2 using this tactic and the opposition figures are W2,L0, D2. In the two cases where the opposition won and batted first they W1, L0, D1. In other words, the more slavish our adherence to this theory, the less evidence there is for it being the automatic solution for Sussex. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 19:07:01 GMT
And interesting stats from this match, which showed day two as by far the best day to bowl on:
DAY ONE 408 runs 5 wkts
DAY TWO 314 runs 13 wkts
DAY THREE 450 runs 6 wkts
DAY FOUR 169 runs 2 wkts (56 overs only)
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