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Post by mrsdoyle on Apr 9, 2017 11:13:02 GMT
This is to FB, the posts were just getting silly long to keep pressing 'quote'.
I have throughout this discussion been I hope, polite, despite provocation.
I have trawled back through all your posts and can only identify two 'questions', one about Gibraltar and one about living in an Eastern European country, I answered both, though possibly not in the depth you sought, I didn't realise it was an interrogation at the time though.
As requested I gave you an in depth analysis of what I thought would be the economic outcome of our leaving the EU, with statistics to back it up. You dismiss it as a brexiteers wish list. If plain facts carry no weight with you then what is the point?
Throughout the campaign Remain talked only of the economy. Leave talked of taking back control, sovereignty, being our own masters again. You would think that only N Korea wasn't in the EU! 169 other countries are not in the EU and doing very nicely. We have throughout history made our way by trading. Not being able to make our own trade deals has damaged us because the EU has been singularly bad at making deals to date. If they can't make one with us then we trade under WTO rules, as I showed above there is nothing to fear there.
You talk of security and peace. The Paris and Greek riots are directly connected with EU policies. Throughout the EU anti-EU sentiment is rising.
The EU thinks it OK to facilitate one of its members making a grab for part of the UK, in defiance of treaties they signed, and you seem fine with this. You fret about Russia but if the EU is so great, of such benefit to its members, it will survive and prosper and the Eastern European Countries will be secure, surely.
The pound was undoubtedly over valued, and part of its fall was undoubtedly down to speculators, although it does make imports more expensive it also means home produced goods are more competitive here. The pound has always risen and fallen, which provides advantages and disadvantages, you are only seeing the disadvantages, it is fairly stable ATM, let's wait and see.
Interest rates are at an historic low and have been for a long time, they need to rise to choke off inflation and stop consumer debt getting out of hand. Not rises to the levels around when I had a mortgage, but rise certainly.
I mentioned unemployment because Project Fear said it would go up, it hasn't.
Ireland will be fine. Both sides do not want to see a hard border. There wasn't one for many years before we both joined the EU. If I were Ireland I would leave the EU too, chances are they are about to go from a net beneficiary to a net contributor, and the EU is starting to interfere more and more in its taxation regime. A lot of its trade is with the UK in any case.
As for Scotland Independence has been on the cards since the Blair devolution. They have had one referendum already, whilst we were in the EU. The SNP will fret and moan until they get another vote. I don't think the Scotish people will choose to leave the UK but if they do so be it.
Gibraltar will remain British because the Spanish have no rights on the matter. The Gibraltarians themselves overwhelmingly wish to remain British, and Spain has disputed overseas territories that will become fair game if they seize Gibraltar unlawfully. Whilst we were both members of the EU they flexed their muscles over Gib but to no avail. Our leaving hasn't really altered anything there either.
I trust you will agree that I have addressed all your points here.
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Post by flashblade on Apr 10, 2017 12:46:16 GMT
This is to FB, the posts were just getting silly long to keep pressing 'quote'. I have throughout this discussion been I hope, polite, despite provocation. I thought we'd both been polite. I don't know why you should have felt provoked.I have trawled back through all your posts and can only identify two 'questions', one about Gibraltar and one about living in an Eastern European country, I answered both, though possibly not in the depth you sought, I didn't realise it was an interrogation at the time though. Unnecessary sarcasm, Mrs DAs requested I gave you an in depth analysis of what I thought would be the economic outcome of our leaving the EU, with statistics to back it up. You dismiss it as a brexiteers wish list. If plain facts carry no weight with you then what is the point? I didn't ask you for an in depth analysis of what you thought would be the economic outcome of our leaving the EU, with statistics to back it up. You volunteered that info. You obviously have a very optimistic view of the likely economic outcome of Brexit, but you're not entitled to refer to your predictions as "facts". Throughout the campaign Remain talked only of the economy. Leave talked of taking back control, sovereignty, being our own masters again. You would think that only N Korea wasn't in the EU! 169 other countries are not in the EU and doing very nicely. We have throughout history made our way by trading. Not being able to make our own trade deals has damaged us because the EU has been singularly bad at making deals to date. If they can't make one with us then we trade under WTO rules, as I showed above there is nothing to fear there. Really!! How do you judge how many of them are "doing very nicely"?You talk of security and peace. The Paris and Greek riots are directly connected with EU policies. Throughout the EU anti-EU sentiment is rising. As you are aware, I was referring mainly to Europe's relationship with Russia. This matter has become even more topical in the last few days.The EU thinks it OK to facilitate one of its members making a grab for part of the UK, in defiance of treaties they signed, and you seem fine with this. You fret about Russia but if the EU is so great, of such benefit to its members, it will survive and prosper and the Eastern European Countries will be secure, surely. I am not "fine with this". I merely pointed out that Brexit had given Spain an excuse to raise the hoary old Gibraltar question.The pound was undoubtedly over valued, and part of its fall was undoubtedly down to speculators, although it does make imports more expensive it also means home produced goods are more competitive here. The pound has always risen and fallen, which provides advantages and disadvantages, you are only seeing the disadvantages, it is fairly stable ATM, let's wait and see. I think I see both sides. I only highlighted the disadvantages because you had failed to do so!
Interest rates are at an historic low and have been for a long time, they need to rise to choke off inflation and stop consumer debt getting out of hand. Not rises to the levels around when I had a mortgage, but rise certainly. We agree on this. I had pointed out to you that the fall in the pound since June 2016 had contributed to the rise in inflation during the last 6 months.
I mentioned unemployment because Project Fear said it would go up, it hasn't. I don't agree with Project Fear any more than you do.Ireland will be fine. Both sides do not want to see a hard border. There wasn't one for many years before we both joined the EU. If I were Ireland I would leave the EU too, chances are they are about to go from a net beneficiary to a net contributor, and the EU is starting to interfere more and more in its taxation regime. A lot of its trade is with the UK in any case. This a prediction - we shall see.As for Scotland Independence has been on the cards since the Blair devolution. They have had one referendum already, whilst we were in the EU. The SNP will fret and moan until they get another vote. I don't think the Scotish people will choose to leave the UK but if they do so be it.
I am not a Little Englander - I would like to maintain the UK in its present form. The Scots must make up their minds, but I will be disappointed if they leave. "So be it" denotes a very dismissive attitude.Gibraltar will remain British because the Spanish have no rights on the matter. The Gibraltarians themselves overwhelmingly wish to remain British, and Spain has disputed overseas territories that will become fair game if they seize Gibraltar unlawfully. Whilst we were both members of the EU they flexed their muscles over Gib but to no avail. Our leaving hasn't really altered anything there either. I don't disagree with you on this. But, the fact that the issue has arisen doesn't itself strengthen the case for Brexit. I trust you will agree that I have addressed all your points here. Mrs D - I am not a Remainer or a Remoaner. Neither am I a Brexiteer. Now that the decision has been taken, I want Brexit to succeed, but I do not share your unbridled optimism about the outcome of the Brexit negotiations. You seem to imply that the PM's task is straightforward, but I, and many others disagree. You may have thought that many of my comments were the negative responses of a Remoaner; however, I have merely been trying to counterbalance your Brexit zealotry! Your evident confirmation bias has led you to distort or misunderstand many of my comments, in an apparent attempt to preserve your beliefs intact.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias Anyway, I don't think this discussion has any further mileage in it at present. I suggest we wait and see what happens during the Brexit negotiations.
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Post by mrsdoyle on Apr 10, 2017 18:46:16 GMT
This is to FB, the posts were just getting silly long to keep pressing 'quote'. I have throughout this discussion been I hope, polite, despite provocation. I thought we'd both been polite. I don't know why you should have felt provoked.I have trawled back through all your posts and can only identify two 'questions', one about Gibraltar and one about living in an Eastern European country, I answered both, though possibly not in the depth you sought, I didn't realise it was an interrogation at the time though. Unnecessary sarcasm, Mrs DAs requested I gave you an in depth analysis of what I thought would be the economic outcome of our leaving the EU, with statistics to back it up. You dismiss it as a brexiteers wish list. If plain facts carry no weight with you then what is the point? I didn't ask you for an in depth analysis of what you thought would be the economic outcome of our leaving the EU, with statistics to back it up. You volunteered that info. You obviously have a very optimistic view of the likely economic outcome of Brexit, but you're not entitled to refer to your predictions as "facts". Throughout the campaign Remain talked only of the economy. Leave talked of taking back control, sovereignty, being our own masters again. You would think that only N Korea wasn't in the EU! 169 other countries are not in the EU and doing very nicely. We have throughout history made our way by trading. Not being able to make our own trade deals has damaged us because the EU has been singularly bad at making deals to date. If they can't make one with us then we trade under WTO rules, as I showed above there is nothing to fear there. Really!! How do you judge how many of them are "doing very nicely"?You talk of security and peace. The Paris and Greek riots are directly connected with EU policies. Throughout the EU anti-EU sentiment is rising. As you are aware, I was referring mainly to Europe's relationship with Russia. This matter has become even more topical in the last few days.The EU thinks it OK to facilitate one of its members making a grab for part of the UK, in defiance of treaties they signed, and you seem fine with this. You fret about Russia but if the EU is so great, of such benefit to its members, it will survive and prosper and the Eastern European Countries will be secure, surely. I am not "fine with this". I merely pointed out that Brexit had given Spain an excuse to raise the hoary old Gibraltar question.The pound was undoubtedly over valued, and part of its fall was undoubtedly down to speculators, although it does make imports more expensive it also means home produced goods are more competitive here. The pound has always risen and fallen, which provides advantages and disadvantages, you are only seeing the disadvantages, it is fairly stable ATM, let's wait and see. I think I see both sides. I only highlighted the disadvantages because you had failed to do so!
Interest rates are at an historic low and have been for a long time, they need to rise to choke off inflation and stop consumer debt getting out of hand. Not rises to the levels around when I had a mortgage, but rise certainly. We agree on this. I had pointed out to you that the fall in the pound since June 2016 had contributed to the rise in inflation during the last 6 months.
I mentioned unemployment because Project Fear said it would go up, it hasn't. I don't agree with Project Fear any more than you do.Ireland will be fine. Both sides do not want to see a hard border. There wasn't one for many years before we both joined the EU. If I were Ireland I would leave the EU too, chances are they are about to go from a net beneficiary to a net contributor, and the EU is starting to interfere more and more in its taxation regime. A lot of its trade is with the UK in any case. This a prediction - we shall see.As for Scotland Independence has been on the cards since the Blair devolution. They have had one referendum already, whilst we were in the EU. The SNP will fret and moan until they get another vote. I don't think the Scotish people will choose to leave the UK but if they do so be it.
I am not a Little Englander - I would like to maintain the UK in its present form. The Scots must make up their minds, but I will be disappointed if they leave. "So be it" denotes a very dismissive attitude.Gibraltar will remain British because the Spanish have no rights on the matter. The Gibraltarians themselves overwhelmingly wish to remain British, and Spain has disputed overseas territories that will become fair game if they seize Gibraltar unlawfully. Whilst we were both members of the EU they flexed their muscles over Gib but to no avail. Our leaving hasn't really altered anything there either. I don't disagree with you on this. But, the fact that the issue has arisen doesn't itself strengthen the case for Brexit. I trust you will agree that I have addressed all your points here. Mrs D - I am not a Remainer or a Remoaner. Neither am I a Brexiteer. Now that the decision has been taken, I want Brexit to succeed, but I do not share your unbridled optimism about the outcome of the Brexit negotiations. You seem to imply that the PM's task is straightforward, but I, and many others disagree. You may have thought that many of my comments were the negative responses of a Remoaner; however, I have merely been trying to counterbalance your Brexit zealotry! Your evident confirmation bias has led you to distort or misunderstand many of my comments, in an apparent attempt to preserve your beliefs intact.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias Anyway, I don't think this discussion has any further mileage in it at present. I suggest we wait and see what happens during the Brexit negotiations.
No, you've not been polite, quite aggressively rude in fact, a trend you have continued in this post and which sadly the moderator has not seen fit to pull you up on. So I will gladly end the discussion here.
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Post by flashblade on Apr 13, 2017 7:38:32 GMT
Mrs Doyle, I understand that neither of us wishes to keep this discussion going, but I can't let your parting insult remain unchallenged. Perhaps in order to distract from the substance of our discussion, you now criticise me by saying "you've not been polite, quite aggressively rude in fact". I disagree; maybe you don't understand the difference between robust debate and aggression? Just to let you know also that I have not been "pulled up" by the moderator.
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Post by moderator1 on Apr 13, 2017 8:47:16 GMT
It isn't my view that either flashblade or mrsdoyle have posted anything in this discussion that infringes the specific Rules below, which we recently adopted from ProBoards own list, though you've certainly been robust enough to come close. I don't "pull up" anyone arbitrarily, but I do reserve the right to warn publicly or by pm if I think the topic is being overshadowed by the tone and style of the posts. I hope that is clear.
Posts that purposely belittle other members, causes or organizations will not be tolerated. • If you cannot be civil when replying, then do not reply. • Treat everyone with respect, even if you do not agree with their opinion or decisions. • Vulgar language (including creatively spelled words to bypass the censored word list) and inappropriate material are not allowed and will be removed. Repeated offenses may result in a warning or ban.
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rsj
2nd XI player
Posts: 42
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Post by rsj on Apr 13, 2017 17:34:12 GMT
Posts that purposely belittle other members, causes or organizations will not be tolerated. • If you cannot be civil when replying, then do not reply. • Treat everyone with respect, even if you do not agree with their opinion or decisions. • Vulgar language (including creatively spelled words to bypass the censored word list) and inappropriate material are not allowed and will be removed. Repeated offenses may result in a warning or ban. Just wondered in the nicest possible way, is that why Borderman is no longer on this board.
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Post by coverpoint on Jun 9, 2017 3:13:24 GMT
Cameron gambled by calling the EU referendum and lost and May gambled by calling an unneeded general election and has lot her majority. I suggest in future the Tories resist the temptation to visit the casino and roll the roulette wheel.
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Post by liquidskin on Jun 9, 2017 17:24:41 GMT
It wasn't a gamble to call a referendum, he had to. His mistake was taking a side. If he'd have simply said that he isn't declaring a preference for in or out, that he will lead his people along the path they democratically decide, while being honest about why he won't declare his preference, he would still be in a job now and things would be looking progressive and sane.
It's all pretty laughable really, if you forget how much it might derail yours and your loved ones' lives and screw up your country. Ha ha.
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