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Post by leedsgull on Sept 15, 2016 9:42:21 GMT
I accept that the success or otherwise of a city based tournament is unknown. It is clearly going to happen. However I can not see any way a parallel 20/20 tournament would be successful. Their are only so many people prepared to watch this brand of cricket. They may will be enticed by the novelty value of the new tournament but it stretches credulity to think that they will also attend the "weaker" alternative. I am at a loss as to how all these matches could be scheduled without giving over most of the summer to 20/20. If that is what is desired then the future is very bleak for first class cricket.
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Sept 15, 2016 10:18:07 GMT
How bizarre. I wrote a comment asking why no statement just as the club placed one on their website. So, I have now amended the piece and looked at what other counties have published. At present, Kent STILL haven't released a statement which is shoddy of them.
Surrey's reasons are obvious. ‘We don’t need it. We are fiscally fine as we are.’ Yet, the other two, Kent and Sussex, both financially need the alleged proposed annual £1.5m a year handout to compete against the other 15 counties.
From the majority 16-3 YAYS, Derbyshire's explanation. “The Club believes that any proposal for the domestic structure that provides long-term financial sustainability and encourages more people to play and support cricket is good for the game. The Club, therefore, welcomes the ECB’s review of the domestic T20 competition and believes that today’s meeting was very constructive.”
Warwickshire also: “Warwickshire CCC has welcomed the ECB’s review of the domestic T20 competition and the club believes that today's meeting was very constructive and a positive step towards attracting more people to play and support the game of Cricket and also to create a commercially sustainable model for the future.”
The other YAY counties have published similar explanations.
Even the anti-Surrey has written: “Whilst we would have very much preferred for an option involving all counties to have remained on the table for further discussion – and a lot more detailed work needs to be done before anything can be finalised – we are looking forward to working constructively with the ECB in the direction of travel that has been agreed at today’s meeting.”
Finally, we have now Sussex's statement.
"...We recognise the current financial risks to Counties, including over dependence on international income, and the opportunities to develop interest in the game, including the changing media landscape. The Board is open to considering change in the schedule but our strong preference is that domestic tournaments should feature all 18 First Class Counties.... There is much work to carry out on many issues before the game will be in a position to give agreement to the proposed new schedule. Sussex Cricket will continue to participate in this process in a constructive way."
Everyone agrees this 16-3 vote is the beginning of a series of negotiations ahead but one suggests the counties do not have that much say if they are willing to accept £1.5m each a year. It is disappointing that Sussex lie in a tiny minority of three, although not surprising given the present culture, particularly when the most traditional and conservative cricket group of all, the MCC, also voted for the City-Franchise. In fact, given the high T20 Blast attendances at Lord's this season, the MCC represent a far more broad and open-minded group than many of the counties. For, they have seen first hand, the huge crowds that can be attracted to a major T20 tournament.
A concern is that Nick Hoult has suggested the Franchise competition may not begin until 2020 rather than the previously mooted 2018 due to better media/TV negotiations. Personally, the sooner this tournament begins the better as the process of decreasing the present £90m+ county debt can begin and we can attract new people to our wonderful game to help boost the survival of county cricket for another 25 years.
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Post by piperdog on Sept 15, 2016 11:20:49 GMT
Soft'nFluffy looks forward with glee to the survival of county cricket for another 25 years and I sincerely hope he's right. The custodians of our county game look back on 143 years as an equal member of a county championship and understandably wish to preserve as much of that equality as possible. I don't find that disappointing. The pot of gold he welcomes can only be realised by the exploitation of a new media player - namely BT - and if this can't happen until 2020 because Sky hold the rights til then he will have to be patient and rely on our County to negotiate as much in compensation as possible for the considerable losses we will sustain. Namely the diminishing of the current 20/20 county competition, the hopefully temporary loss of players to the new one, the loss of any County playing days in Sussex to accommodate the new competition, and the reduction in prestige - perceived or genuine - of the Sussex County Cricket Club brand.
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Sept 15, 2016 11:22:35 GMT
band,
Is it too early to know the following 1) Is it, like Ausralia Big Bash going to be on free to air TV 2) Will players selected be w/d from county games to play in it.
I usually take my information from Nick Hoult as he is the messenger boy for the ECB, for when a leak is required, Hoult's your man.
My understanding is the ECB wish to model their tournament on the BBL where free to air TV is part of the plan. Players will be auctioned and chosen by each Franchise. Hopefully, those available will include England cricketers, a good selection of Overseas Stars and the cream from the counties. The tournament will last a month - presumably during the months of June and July. There will be eight teams, each based at a TMG around the country. One suspects London will have two at Lord's and The Oval and the others may include the Ageas Bowl, Swalec, Trentbridge, Edgbaston, Old Trafford and Headingley. The contentious decision may be Durham. Will they be left out and allowed to go bankrupt?
The major problem with this City-based tournament is that clubs like Sussex, Kent, Northants, Leicestershire, Derbyshire and Worcestershire could be left behind. As the tournament may reward non-TMG ambition like Somerset who have upgraded their venue to ODI status; Gloucestershire revamping theirs to ODI prominence via money from a major housing development; and Essex with the Olympic Stadium. If some of the matches are "farmed out" and each of these clubs are offered monies for hosting games, then Sussex becomes less competitive, posing the question. Could not more ambition have been shown with the use of the Spen Cama Legacy?
The overall hope is that this Franchise tournament will attract many new people to cricket eg. like the Big Bash; far more money will enter the English game which can then help decrease the county debt, where there is presently far too much reliance from international revenues; and most importantly of all, the county Championship can survive for another 25 years.
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Post by hhsussex on Sept 15, 2016 12:05:35 GMT
From the Middlesex Till We Die message-board www.cricketnetwork.co.uk/boards/read/s66.htm?67,15703554,page=4, this comment by the felicitously-named Sussex Seaxe strikes me as the most sensible and positive statement anyone has made yet about the proposals and their reception. I hope that Sussex Seaxe won't mind too much if I quote it in full here. I am of an age and history that makes me a great lover of the Championship as the number one competition, with the RLI Cup (in it's various guises over the years) as a top contest and the T20 as a bit of fun that brings in much needed cash and is greatly enjoyed by some.
I am going to raise my head above the parapet though, about some of the comments on here and elsewhere. I'm not sure if anyone has met and spoken to Messrs Graves and Harrison (I haven't), but are we really saying that they are brainless and have no interest in the future of the game? Is insulting them really the mature, considered thing to do that is likely to make our voices heard? Are we really suggesting that the Chief Executives of counties, including our own, have no regard for the success of cricket?
I rather suspect that, rather like complaining about everything the government does/doesn't do, we might see things rather differently if we saw the figures, knew all the facts and had to make the decisions ourselves.
I would love to see the Championship remain as it is, but I probably said the same back in 1976. The world changes and while I really don't want to lose what I love, and sincerely hope that we don't, my enjoyment of the game, the people and the spirit will, I hope go on as long as I do and continue to provide pleasure for future generations.
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Post by leedsgull on Sept 15, 2016 12:16:14 GMT
There has just been a 40 minute discussion on 5 live sports extra on the subject. I am sure it will be available as a podcast later today on the BBC cricket site. It suggests that the subject is far less clear cut than the messages of yesterday suggested.
Yorkshire are also conspicuously silent on this matter. The website carries no news of the ECB decision. They prefer instead to promote evenings with Geoffrey Boycott watching his home movies(heaven forbid) and a gala farewell to Gillespie. We know where there priorities lay.
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Sept 15, 2016 13:52:38 GMT
Telegraph journalist Nick Hoult tweets today. "Lots of statements from counties today but they gave ECB big mandate yesterday. Change appears unstoppable now."
One enthusiastic advocate for the City-Franchise is Derbyshire Chairman, Christopher Grant, who tweets: "There will still be 18 thriving Counties as well as 8 new ones to encourage a new audience." And "Out of 9.4m cricket followers in this Country only 990k come to games at present. Yesterday was about unlocking the 8.5m!"
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Post by hhsussex on Sept 15, 2016 16:13:41 GMT
Telegraph journalist Nick Hoult tweets today. "Lots of statements from counties today but they gave ECB big mandate yesterday. Change appears unstoppable now." One enthusiastic advocate for the City-Franchise is Derbyshire Chairman, Christopher Grant, who tweets: "There will still be 18 thriving Counties as well as 8 new ones to encourage a new audience." And "Out of 9.4m cricket followers in this Country only 990k come to games at present. Yesterday was about unlocking the 8.5m!" Yes, plenty of back-pedalling and "of course we didn't really mean that". The reply I've received from Sussex, for example, includes this "We will now focus on analysing, challenging and understanding the implications . This will take some time and as you are no doubt aware will not be a simple task". The first sentence suggests that they voted no because they didn't think it would get through. Now that it has happened they have to try and make sense of it - a bit like Brexit. The second sentence implies that they aren't ready for Article 50 to be activated at the October ECB Board meeting. This is borne out by Jim May's remarks to the Argus that “Sussex’s preference is to have a competition where all the counties are involved. That is our stated position but we accept the collective decision of the first class counties and will play a constructive part in trying to make it work." www.theargus.co.uk/sport/14744754.Sussex_oppose_new_T20_plans___but_will_help_make_it_work/Again there is no commitment to consult so that seems to be something that the ECB would like to see happen but that the counties have no intention of doing. So no change there then: the suits in the committee will work out what's best for the market and then be hurt and angry when the market doesn't want what they have decided on.
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Post by flashblade on Sept 15, 2016 17:00:51 GMT
Telegraph journalist Nick Hoult tweets today. "Lots of statements from counties today but they gave ECB big mandate yesterday. Change appears unstoppable now." One enthusiastic advocate for the City-Franchise is Derbyshire Chairman, Christopher Grant, who tweets: "There will still be 18 thriving Counties as well as 8 new ones to encourage a new audience." And "Out of 9.4m cricket followers in this Country only 990k come to games at present. Yesterday was about unlocking the 8.5m!" Yes, plenty of back-pedalling and "of course we didn't really mean that". The reply I've received from Sussex, for example, includes this "We will now focus on analysing, challenging and understanding the implications . This will take some time and as you are no doubt aware will not be a simple task". The first sentence suggests that they voted no because they didn't think it would get through. Now that it has happened they have to try and make sense of it - a bit like Brexit. The second sentence implies that they aren't ready for Article 50 to be activated at the October ECB Board meeting. This is borne out by Jim May's remarks to the Argus that “Sussex’s preference is to have a competition where all the counties are involved. That is our stated position but we accept the collective decision of the first class counties and will play a constructive part in trying to make it work." www.theargus.co.uk/sport/14744754.Sussex_oppose_new_T20_plans___but_will_help_make_it_work/Again there is no commitment to consult so that seems to be something that the ECB would like to see happen but that the counties have no intention of doing. So no change there then: the suits in the committee will work out what's best for the market and then be hurt and angry when the market doesn't want what they have decided on. That doesn't make sense to me. I understood that the many of the counties told the ECB yesterday that they couldn't proceed any further with the discussions until they'd had a chance to consult with their members. Members of all 18 counties are entitled to be consulted, or there will be much discord in the shires! HHS - I think you asked SCCC how and when they proposed to consult - have you received an answer yet?
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Post by hhsussex on Sept 15, 2016 17:21:22 GMT
Yes, plenty of back-pedalling and "of course we didn't really mean that". The reply I've received from Sussex, for example, includes this "We will now focus on analysing, challenging and understanding the implications . This will take some time and as you are no doubt aware will not be a simple task". The first sentence suggests that they voted no because they didn't think it would get through. Now that it has happened they have to try and make sense of it - a bit like Brexit. The second sentence implies that they aren't ready for Article 50 to be activated at the October ECB Board meeting. This is borne out by Jim May's remarks to the Argus that “Sussex’s preference is to have a competition where all the counties are involved. That is our stated position but we accept the collective decision of the first class counties and will play a constructive part in trying to make it work." www.theargus.co.uk/sport/14744754.Sussex_oppose_new_T20_plans___but_will_help_make_it_work/Again there is no commitment to consult so that seems to be something that the ECB would like to see happen but that the counties have no intention of doing. So no change there then: the suits in the committee will work out what's best for the market and then be hurt and angry when the market doesn't want what they have decided on. That doesn't make sense to me. I understood that the many of the counties told the ECB yesterday that they couldn't proceed any further with the discussions until they'd had a chance to consult with their members. Members of all 18 counties are entitled to be consulted, or there will be much discord in the shires! HHS - I think you asked SCCC how and when they proposed to consult - have you received an answer yet? Yes. Stripped of salutations it reads All that was agreed at yesterday’s meeting was to further explore one of the options which the press has outlined . We have committed to communicate with our members as soon as we have the relevant and meaningful information. We will of course outline any meetings etc at that stage. We will now focus on analysing, challenging and understanding the implications . This will take some time and as you are no doubt aware will not be a simple task.
Question: does "Communicate with" equal "Consult"?
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Post by flashblade on Sept 15, 2016 18:26:53 GMT
That doesn't make sense to me. I understood that the many of the counties told the ECB yesterday that they couldn't proceed any further with the discussions until they'd had a chance to consult with their members. Members of all 18 counties are entitled to be consulted, or there will be much discord in the shires! HHS - I think you asked SCCC how and when they proposed to consult - have you received an answer yet? Yes. Stripped of salutations it reads All that was agreed at yesterday’s meeting was to further explore one of the options which the press has outlined . We have committed to communicate with our members as soon as we have the relevant and meaningful information. We will of course outline any meetings etc at that stage. We will now focus on analysing, challenging and understanding the implications . This will take some time and as you are no doubt aware will not be a simple task.
Question: does "Communicate with" equal "Consult"? We need the club to confirm that it does mean to consult. I suspect the word 'communicate' was chosen very carefully, as it implies no commitment to consult. We need communication and consultation.
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Post by flashblade on Sept 15, 2016 20:25:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2016 20:37:24 GMT
Two fair points, but lost in a load of badly-written, ill thought-out tosh argued with a clumsy awkwardness that would shame a sixth-form debating society. Good old Sussex By The Sea, eh? The only county that both opposed the launch of the T20 in 2003 and opposes a second T20 competition in 2016. Even fellow refuseniks in 2016, Kent and Surrey, voted in favour of the T20 in 2003. Credit to Sussex for consistency in their arch-conservatism, I suppose. But Jim May and company were supposed to be the revolutionaries. That they have proved to be the most reactionary of all 18 counties since the 1997 insurrection makes you shudder to think just how neanderthal the regime they overthrew must have been. As for consulation, Sussex think they have done that with the ludicrous Brooks and his Inner Circle lick-spittles who claim to speak for all Sussex supporters and will settle for nothing less than the heads of Graves and Harrison. Loved the way the Derbyshire chairman floored the blustering Brooks on Twitter, telling him, "Simply relying on the male, pale and stale will eventually take many of us down Dave." Wouldn't it be nice if for once Sussex could be in the vanguard for change, instead of every time having to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century?
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Sept 16, 2016 7:39:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2016 7:54:35 GMT
Kent STILL haven't released a statement which is shoddy of them. No, they still haven't communicated anything to members and supporters and characteristically e-mailed their weekly 'Extra Cover' news bulletin to several thousand followers yesterday afternoon without even mentioning it. But their chairman is in The Times this morning insisting that Kent did not vote against. He is quoted as saying : "I didn’t say ‘no’ and I didn’t say ‘yes’”. In effect he claims that Kent abstained and so therefore the vote was actually 16-2 with one abstention. The Kent chairman is then quoted as saying he will consult but that Kent members "must recognise the reality of the vote" which suggests that however reluctantly, Kent are now on board for change. I suspect all the huffing and puffing from other counties about "consulting members" disguises the same outcome. There is no way back and a city-based tournament will now happen. All in all, I think Graves and Harrison have handled it rather well. Strange that on the morning of the meeting, at least one excitable commentator was writing that the vote was on a kinife-edge and the ECB could soon be looking for a new chairman and CEO. The Times article, by the way, carries the joint by-lines of Richard Hobson and Elizabeth Ammon (aka Legside Lizzy). It's very well written. Which shows that the old-fashioned sub-editor - a role now abolished by so many media outlets in favour of "self-subbing" but still de rigeur at The Times - can still be invaluable.
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