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Post by hhsussex on Feb 9, 2017 15:26:28 GMT
There's a report in The Times today (yes, Ms Ammon again) that "Middlesex fear huge losses from new T20". The headline might be better put "Middlesex fear they won't cash in from new T20, much like Sussex and Kent". The report says that "..... grounds who host one of the 36 matches will be paid a staging fee of about £75,000 with the ground also able to keep the profits from food and drink sold at the match". [Note the use above of the singular use of "match(es)", quite a gravy train for the TM grounds]. It goes on "Because Middlesex rent Lord's from MCC they would not receive any staging fees or concession profits and they believe that immediately puts them at a disadvantage". A disadvantage compared to who (or should it be whom)? Maybe the Oval, but not to Hove or Canterbury who, presumably, will not stage any matches, will lose their best players to the new T20 and suffer much depleted income during the competition from attendances and sponsorship. Why should there be special pleading from Middlesex, but not from Hove and Canterbury? Surely any effect on MCCC membership numbers, sponsorship income and ground use should be a matter of negotiation between MCCC and MCC (with the latter trousering staging and concession income) not MCCC and the ECB?
And if the idea of super-counties has any credibility, then presumably Essex will have similar issues with the GLA over the use and revenues from the London Stadium? It does seem to emphasise that the new venture has to recognise as separate strands 1) the grounds where the games are to be held, and what payments and rights apply to them 2) royalty payments to the counties from the bottom line 3) compensation payments where assets of existing counties, either human or chunks of turf and concrete, are compromised or deprived by the scheme Mixing up these issues will reproduce the inequalities and archaic nonsenses of the present 18 county structure, including the massive inefficiencies of most of them.
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Post by tigertiger on Feb 9, 2017 17:10:16 GMT
Presume that on test match days, the T20 would only be allowed to start at 7pm Missing the test stars also means of course that test players in the visiting test team also missing ... and still think the BCCI are banning Indians. Have a suspicion that the financial benefits have been overplayed!
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Post by gmdf on Feb 10, 2017 8:01:18 GMT
Presume that on test match days, the T20 would only be allowed to start at 7pm Missing the test stars also means of course that test players in the visiting test team also missing ... and still think the BCCI are banning Indians. Have a suspicion that the financial benefits have been overplayed! And won't the proposed franchise competition clash with the Caribbean League? If so, few (if any) WI players would be available, and some of the other 'stars' may decide Antigua is a nicer place to play than Manchester...!
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Post by leedsgull on Feb 10, 2017 8:32:14 GMT
If the new tournament is to stand a chance then I think the 18 county 20/20 must be ditched. I refuse to believe that there is any public appetite for two consecutive competitions.
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Post by gmdf on Feb 10, 2017 8:41:10 GMT
If the new tournament is to stand a chance then I think the 18 county 20/20 must be ditched. I refuse to believe that there is any public appetite for two consecutive competitions. That will leave a large hole in county finances - and if the city franchise under-performs or fails (as I fear it will), then this may spell the end for several counties. I suspect many counties will fight tooth and nail to keep their T20.
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Post by tigertiger on Feb 10, 2017 8:55:47 GMT
But of course the ECB believe that the new competition will have a different audience .... No idea where they will find them though.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 9:32:06 GMT
1. No , it will not need to clash with the CPL, just as the NZ league doesn't clash with the BBL. There are 52 weeks in the international cricketing calendar and it is the southern hemisphere summer that is overcrowded, not the northern one. WI players will demand to take part in the English CBT, not least because the pay will be higher than the CPL.
2. There is no question of the T20 Blast being ditched, although perhaps it could be scaled back to ten matches instead of the present 14 in the qualifying stage - three groups of six, each side playing each other twice, perhaps.
3.There bloody well better be a "different audience" because otherwise professional cricket in England is doomed! It cannot be sustained by the pathetically dwindling number of county members (fewer than 50,000) or by meagre T20 Blast crowds of 2-3,000 at Leics, Derbys and Northants and 3-5000 at Kent and Sussex.
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Feb 10, 2017 9:41:21 GMT
Tt,
One of the "brands" on this Forum since it began are discussions on a proposed English Premier League; and while they have been vibrantly debated, they always end up reading like a scratched record. Those against view it through half empty glasses and those for it half full.
The premise for the "yays" is using the success of the IPL and, in particular, the BBL, as the role model. Tt asks where the audience will come from. Both the BBL and the IPL have shown, they are often a new audience where many have not attended a cricket match before. The BBL is a classic example. I believe just recently, around 30% of their record attendances for BBL6, were people new to the sport.
My default position is this: Talking to influential people in the cricketing world, unless something dramatically negative occurs in March when the ECB offer fuller proposals to the counties, the competition will go ahead in 2020. There will be an initial 5 year contract to either SKY or BT or any other major media corporation that wins the bidding. That means £6.5m going to the coffers of each county + staging fees to those TMGs who host the matches. A massive lottery win to all concerned.
Only until late Summer 2024 can we then truly review whether the tournament has been a success or not. Meanwhile, let us continue our debates where the yays can use the previous success stories and the nays, perhaps, those tournaments which are not - although, not sure which ones have failed?
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Post by gmdf on Feb 10, 2017 9:52:48 GMT
1. No , it will not need to clash with the CPL, just as the NZ league doesn't clash with the BBL. There are 52 weeks in the international cricketing calendar and it is the southern hemisphere summer that is overcrowded, not ther northern one. WI players will demand to take part in the CBL, not least because the pay will be higher than the CPL. 2. There is no question of the T20 Blast being ditched, although perhaps it could be scaled back to ten matches instead of the present 14 in the qualifying stage - three groups of six, each side playing each other twice, perhaps. 3.There bloody well better be a "different audience" because otherwise professional cricket in England is doomed! It cannot be sustained by the pathetically dwindling number of county members (fewer than 50,000) or by meagre T20 Blast crowds of 2-3,000 at Leics, Derbys and Northants and 3-5000 at Kent and Sussex. 1. The Caribbean League's dates were 21 June to 26 July last year (2016) - so they may need changing to avoid a clash. 2. I agree - it shouldn't be dropped (and counties won't accept that). They will want as many games as possible. 3. This is the great unknown isn't it...I mean who are these people? This is a time of austerity for many (not all, perhaps) people and also great uncertainty with Brexit's effect on the economy not likely to become known until well into the 2020s. If they exist (this new audience) why haven't they been enthused enough to go to any of the 18 counties playing T20 cricket all over England (& in Wales) for a decade and more? What will now suddenly make them decide to go and watch a team likely to be playing further away than their nearest first class county? And they won't even see England players turning out? Sorry, I can't see it. At best there will be an initial surge of interest - mostly from those already interested in cricket and encouraged by significant (& expensive publicity) and only if the weather plays ball with dry & warm conditions. Then the novelty factor will wear off, and interest will wane.
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Post by tigertiger on Feb 10, 2017 9:57:33 GMT
8 new grounds in the minor counties could get a new audience ...
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Feb 10, 2017 10:51:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 11:12:35 GMT
Yep. Shaking one's head and saying 'it will never work' is for fools (sorry , genuinely no aspersions intended against any posters on here!) George Bernard Shaw said that every new idea in England had to undergo three stages before it was accepted. First, it will be said that it can never work. Second, they will tell you it's against the will of God. And third, once it is successfully up and running, the naysayers will claim that it was their idea all along...
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Post by tigertiger on Feb 10, 2017 11:40:43 GMT
Charming! That the teams will be stronger is not in doubt. That they will get the TV money suggested must be based on something (though I do think that the some have failed to realise that youngsters do not watch live TV any more). That is probably all the ECB need. But they do really need to confirm pretty early whether the Indians will play.
The other claims that they use to justify that they are not just in it for the money do seem more tenuous. Having just read "The Great Tamasha" ... the additional crowds at the IPL were heavily affected by the presence of Bollywood stars. Not sure we will have an equivalent. Australia is very different e.g. more Big Bash Teams than First Class, higher proportion near a ground etc, cricket a higher profile sport. Surprised really that it had doubters. So large new UK crowds still seems a punt to me. A further point that is addressable is that most junior clubs seem to shut down after the end of term ... so if the idea is to encourage youngsters to take up the game ... they will need to ensure there is something instant rather than waiting another 9 months!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 11:51:14 GMT
ECB to brief the PCA at its AGM on the new comp next week:- www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/02/16/ecb-told-allay-fears-english-players-will-sidelined-new-twenty20/One new tit-bit in Hoult's story - a PCA survey of English f/c cricketers last summer found 92 per cent "believe a Big Bash-style competition will be good for the English game." The other notable thing in the article is the shift in tone from the provisional to the inevitable - it's no longer a proposal requiring approval from the counties but a done deal. Hoult's opening sentence says " when a new Twenty20 tournament is launched in 2020" not if ; and the PCA chairman is quoted as saying “Everyone knows the (new) Twenty20 is going to happen." Note to moderator: time to remove the word 'Proposed' from the title of this thread. Even Sussex's opposition appears to have evaporated.....
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Post by gmdf on Feb 17, 2017 12:00:16 GMT
ECB to brief the PCA at its AGM on the new comp next week:- www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2017/02/16/ecb-told-allay-fears-english-players-will-sidelined-new-twenty20/One new tit-bit in Hoult's story - a PCA survey of English f/c cricketers last summer found 92 per cent "believe a Big Bash-style competition will be good for the English game." The other notable thing in the article is the shift in tone from the provisional to the inevitable - it's no longer a proposal requiring approval from the counties but a done deal. Hoult's opening sentence says " when a new Twenty20 tournament is launched in 2020" not if ; and the PCA chairman is quoted as saying “Everyone knows the (new) Twenty20 is going to happen." Note to moderator: time to remove the word 'Proposed' from the title of this thread. Even Sussex's opposition appears to have evaporated..... But also 79% "also believed a two-divisional competition made up of ‘the best county sides’ would be an attractive option".
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