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Post by Wicked Cricket on Nov 24, 2015 10:05:42 GMT
We are back to the problem county cricket has of gaining exact attendance figures. Sussex made a big effort last season with their ticket/Membership reading gizmos, but they would break down or often not work at all. Perhaps, we have to accept that attendance figures for non-all ticket games will rarely be exact and tend to be more a guestimate. And why the only figures we can rely on are from T20 matches. And why we should take yesterday's ECB figures with a pinch of salt. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/34900083 |
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Post by leedsgull on Nov 24, 2015 10:37:50 GMT
As was mentioned by hh Yorkshire had to redo all their figures for last season after an outcry from members as to their validity. This seems to be a recurring problem at Headingley. I recently attended a British &Irish cup match between Yorkshire Carnegie and an Ospreys select xv. The match was supposed to be played at Huddersfield but the ground was unfit so switched to Headingley on the morning of the match. It was therefore free admission to all. The gates were open and you did not pass through any turnstiles yet a precise crowd of 627 was quoted and announced. I did not see anybody counting us individually so I suspect they just make it up.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2015 12:13:11 GMT
I e-mailed Tim Harford at the Radio 4 statistics programme More Or Less and asked him if he'd like to put the ECB figures under the slide rule and ask some searching questions about how the attendance figures are compiled. But unfortuantely I got a reply saying the last series has just ended and the next series is not on air until the New Year.
It's the sort of serious piece of analysis cricinfo should be doing, but doesn't because it's too much like hard work and there are easier and cheaper headlines in speculative scare stories about playing the English domestic 50 overs competition overseas in March. If that ever came to pass it would at least solve the problem of compiling accurate attendance figures, as you would be able to count the spectators on one hand!
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Nov 24, 2015 14:36:01 GMT
Individual county attendances still leaking out. One surprise is Kent who experienced a 74% rise in T20 crowds. www.kentcricket.co.uk/news/county-cricket-crowds-enjoy-bumper-2015-seasonLike Hampshire, Yorkshire enjoyed attendance rises over all three formats with an overall increase of 62,027. Hants had a 20% rise in T20. yorkshireccc.com/news/view/4291/cricket-attracts-record-crowds-for-domestic-and-international-gamesDerbyshire enjoyed a T20 growth of 64% including their first ever sell out match. cricket.derbyshireccc.com/cricket-attracts-record-crowds-in-2015/Which means that those 7 counties who saw T20 attendance falls, in some cases, they must have been quite considerable to offer that positive ECB spin 'smoke and mirrors' 800 figure. The question being: Which 7 counties experienced falls and by what percentage? They are not going to trumpet this on their website. What of Surrey, for example? It was going swimmingly well for them mid-season. “The biggest domestic attendances were seen at Friday night matches in the NatWest T20 Blast with 117,603 fans packing into the ground between May and July to watch Surrey play across six games – a competition average of 19,601 – and an increase of 26% on 2014." www.kiaoval.com/kia-oval-plays-part-in-big-summer/What of Middlesex and Lords? "...a NatWest T20 Blast aggregate attendance of 87,181 across all seven matches; an average attendance increase of 15% at Lord's..." www.middlesexccc.com/news/2015/november/cricket-attracts-record-crowds-in-2015/And Trentbridge? "The 2015 season, a campaign during which Nottinghamshire broke all-time records for both NatWest T20 Blast crowds and Membership... No where was the popularity of T20 highlighted more than at Trent Bridge where the crowd of 13,582 for the local derby against Derbyshire was a Notts Outlaws record - and the tournament average at the venue topped 10,000 for the first time." Even Worcestershire enjoyed a 24% rise. So, who are these despicable 7? Certainly, not Leicestershire: "Leicestershire CCC is delighted to announce a 48% increase in average NatWest T20 Blast attendances for the 2015 season." www.leicestershireccc.co.uk/news/2015/november/bumper-attendances-at-grace-road.htmlNo mention on the Northants CCC website, even when they got to the Finals - odd? Or Gloucestershire, or Glamorgan or Essex or Durham, yet most puzzling is Somerset given their Chris Gayle whirlwind... no mention either. And the BIG surprise is Lancashire. Only a mention of increased RLC crowds. So, could this be the 7 when we're told Sussex enjoyed an extra 5,000 in their group matches followed by a further 5,000 for the QF against Northants. The Despicable 7?Gloucestershire
Glamorgan
Northamptonshire
Essex
Durham
Somerset
Lancashire
Given the success Northants enjoyed in the T20, if their attendance has fallen off, it just shows what a crisis the club are in both on and off the field. While, I fully agree about the attendance figures for the Championship and RLC being untrustworthy, those for the T20 Blast are more likely to be the most accurate. |
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Post by hhsussex on Nov 24, 2015 14:46:25 GMT
Or to quote from that hotbed of radical subversion and revolutionary fervour, the We Are Kent messageboard, in analysing the ECB ballpark figures and the responses from other counties ..."When something is as wrong as that clearly is, the whole shebang has to be suspect and treated with caution. Even if one part of the whole is wrong it makes the whole thing wrong - and that can only mean there's more than a few porkie pies being made." I have no confidence in the ECB Press Release being accurate and very little confidence in the individual figures submitted by the counties, since they do not appear to use a common methodology. |
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Post by flashblade on Nov 24, 2015 15:08:55 GMT
Or to quote from that hotbed of radical subversion and revolutionary fervour, the We Are Kent messageboard, in analysing the ECB ballpark figures and the responses from other counties ..."When something is as wrong as that clearly is, the whole shebang has to be suspect and treated with caution. Even if one part of the whole is wrong it makes the whole thing wrong - and that can only mean there's more than a few porkie pies being made." I have no confidence in the ECB Press Release being accurate and very little confidence in the individual figures submitted by the counties, since they do not appear to use a common methodology. SHAMBLES ALERT!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2015 17:12:14 GMT
Or to quote from that hotbed of radical subversion and revolutionary fervour, the We Are Kent messageboard, in analysing the ECB ballpark figures and the responses from other counties ..."When something is as wrong as that clearly is, the whole shebang has to be suspect and treated with caution. Even if one part of the whole is wrong it makes the whole thing wrong - and that can only mean there's more than a few porkie pies being made." I have no confidence in the ECB Press Release being accurate and very little confidence in the individual figures submitted by the counties, since they do not appear to use a common methodology. SHAMBLES ALERT!!!!!!!!! Or as Peter Capaldi would have put it in The Thick Of It: OMNISHAMBLES ALERT!!!!!!!!! |
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Post by coverpoint on Nov 24, 2015 18:06:13 GMT
We are back to the problem county cricket has of gaining exact attendance figures. Sussex made a big effort last season with their ticket/Membership reading gizmos, but they would break down or often not work at all. Perhaps, we have to accept that attendance figures for non-all ticket games will rarely be exact and tend to be more a guestimate. And why the only figures we can rely on are from T20 matches. And why we should take yesterday's ECB figures with a pinch of salt. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/34900083It's not only a problem in cricket. In horse racing some racecourses count their members as a whole, some do 2/3 and others record the actual number. There is also the issue of how complementary tickets and reciprocals are counted which varies from course to course. I have mentioned to the RCA Racing Executive Claire Sheppard who used to be CEO at Plumpton about the importance of recording attendances between racecourses on the same basis. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2015 19:03:22 GMT
We are back to the problem county cricket has of gaining exact attendance figures. Sussex made a big effort last season with their ticket/Membership reading gizmos, but they would break down or often not work at all. Perhaps, we have to accept that attendance figures for non-all ticket games will rarely be exact and tend to be more a guestimate. And why the only figures we can rely on are from T20 matches. And why we should take yesterday's ECB figures with a pinch of salt. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/34900083It's not only a problem in cricket. In horse racing some racecourses count their members as a whole, some do 2/3 and others record the actual number. There is also the issue of how complementary tickets and reciprocals are counted which varies from course to course. I have mentioned to the RCA Racing Executive Claire Sheppard who used to be CEO at Plumpton about the importance of recording attendances between racecourses on the same basis. CP, what can you tell us about your former boss Emma Santer, who started this month as commercial director at Kent CCC? She seems capable enough but there is something odd about her CV, which shows that she became CEO at Plumpton in March this year but was gone within three months. She didn't have another job to go to and spent four months 'freelancing' until Kent threw her a lifeline. Something presumably went wrong and I hope Kent have made a good appointment (and she's certain to be more competent than the last bloke who didn't know one end of a cricket bat from t'other!) Send me a PM if you can't divulge the gory details on a public forum... |
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Post by coverpoint on Nov 24, 2015 21:47:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 19:55:50 GMT
We are back to the problem county cricket has of gaining exact attendance figures. Sussex made a big effort last season with their ticket/Membership reading gizmos, but they would break down or often not work at all. Perhaps, we have to accept that attendance figures for non-all ticket games will rarely be exact and tend to be more a guestimate. And why the only figures we can rely on are from T20 matches. And why we should take yesterday's ECB figures with a pinch of salt. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/34900083I've suddenly realised that the answer has been staring us in the face. Deep in the subterranean world of the Hove cricket museum is an old turnstyle. A proper piece of machinery that clicks every time anyone passes through it and provides a 100 per cent accurate count of those entering the ground. It's time to bring it out of retirement! Ironic that Sussex was more accurately able to gauge attendace fgures in 1935 than in 2015 with all its digial technology. A bit like those computerised shop tills that seem to require the server to tap in a short novel and take three times as long as a proper old cash register!  |
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Post by hhsussex on Nov 26, 2015 10:29:41 GMT
Info comng out in dribs and drabs now. Seven counties - un-named - had lower T20 attenadance than in 2014. Only two counties - Hants and Yorkshire - showed an increase in all three formats. And sme counties spinning like a top on the figures. Kent website says "strong ticket sales across the three formats were underpinned by Kent’s loyal membership base of more than 5,000" whereas the annual report shows the membership is only hal;f that... Why doesn't the ECB just publish all the attendance figures in a table, format by format and county by county? BTW, fb, I wasn't suggesting Jim May was ill-mannered for I don't suppose the chairman's duties include reading and replying (or not) to questions on Twitter! But I'm sure somebody read it and decided that it didn't merit a reply... That would be the simplest option, but the least susceptible to spin.  Can I suggest a simple expedient for all members of this forum who would like to know the Sussex figures? Complete a short query on the Contacts page of the website here www.sussexcricket.co.uk/contact. I'm sure that someone will reply if only to stem the flow of email enquiries....Just to update that I'm still awaiting a response to my own query submitted through this source. The acknowledgement email said Dear Thank you for your enquiry. We are dealing with your query and the appropriate department will be replying in due course. We endeavour to answer all emails within 48 hours, however some emails may take slightly longer to investigate. We will reply as soon as we can. If your enquiry is urgent, please call us on 0844 264 0202. Many thanks, Sussex CCC |
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Dec 5, 2015 10:30:51 GMT
Somerset, usually the first county to publicise their annual accounts, come in with yet another strong set of figures. This is becoming an impressive habit. Yet, while announcing a pre-tax surplus of £330,389, readers of this Forum have learnt over the years, the club rarely, if ever, use depreciation as part of their accounting practice and therefore the figures always look far better on the surface. Now, the county have a difficulty ahead given their recent pavilion build at a cost close to £4m. Will this sum be depreciated during the years ahead? If so, their annual surplus figures should become deficits in the future. The county argues this investment was a chief factor in gaining international status ahead of the 2019 World Cup. The completed new pavilion has been met with universal approval. Meanwhile, catering income remains a bedrock of the club's accounts with profits amounting to £964,000 alongside its consistent £300k accrued from parking fees and property rental. Cricket income rose 10% to £1.28m alongside a similar rise from the annual ECB 'hand-out' amounting to just over £2m. Yet, what Somerset are faced with are paying off debts of £3.85m primarily due to the pavilion construction. But given International cricket begins at Taunton in 2017 with an ODI England v South Africa, followed two years later by hosting 3 matches during the 'ICC Cricket World Cup', the club must feel confident that such a debt should be only short-term. NB: Somerset say they will continue to retain a strong commitment to investment in their playing squad, claiming that playing costs when expressed as a percentage of income received, the club are ranked second among the 18 first-class counties. Impressive for a non-TMG. www.espncricinfo.com/county-cricket-2016/content/story/947777.html |
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Post by coverpoint on Dec 5, 2015 13:17:39 GMT
Somerset made a £964,000 profit on catering! Puts Sussex's efforts into context.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2015 13:49:19 GMT
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