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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 12:24:17 GMT
More apocalyptic visions of the game's doomed future from the gloomiest man in cricket - Dobell on today's pointless T20 between England and India: "... it will satisfy the broadcasters for another day. And that, in the end, is what England cricket is all about: not excellence; not success but another opportunity to squeeze a few more pounds out of the business. Whatever the short-term benefits - and they are almost entirely financial - the long-term consequences will be disastrous."
I suppose it depends what the ECB does with the "short-term financial benefits". If the money props up the ailing county championship for a bit longer, perhaps that is enough? But I agree it is no long-term solution to county cricket's seemingly terminal decline.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 12:49:52 GMT
One further thought on Jim's description of the County Championship as "the game's least profitable product" which is also relevant to the doom and gloom quote above.
The vast majority of members pay their annual subscription to watch four day cricket not one day cricket, and that is true at all 18 counties.
So when calculating the 'unprofitability' of county cricket, you have to take into account upwards of a couple of thousand of Sussex members paying a fairly hefty membership fee every season (£230 in 2014).
I think Sussex had a major membership drive last year to increase the numbers, but it do not achieve the desired result. But I believe Middx claims 8,000 members so they and other counties with more robust membership numbers will find four day cricket a more attractive proposition than those counties with smaller memebrships.
It is widely accepted that if the four day programme was cut substantially, a large proportion of county members all over the country would not renew. That is why the Morgan Report - which proposed a reduction in four day cricket - was thrown out only two years ago; the majority of counties reported that a substantial cohort of their memberships would desert and therefore they voted it down.
Taking this into account, could it be argued that "the game's least profitable product" is the Royal London Cup, which most members couldn't really care less about and which even in its quarter and semi-final stages has struggled to attract crowds ( I use the term loosely) of more than 3,000?
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Sept 8, 2014 11:57:26 GMT
bm, Excellent debate led by you and so refreshing to have our club Chairman playing an active and important part. God knows how the ECB will respond to the growing criticism from the media as the season ends and the final attendance figures are clawed over. Apart from George Dobell, the editor at 'Cricinfo', David Hopps, feels as strongly, so expect a continued lambasting from that media outlet. For example, we were told the new T20 evening format was 'The Moment of Truth'. That truth has fallen firmly and flatly on its face. Where do the ECB and Gordon Hollins go from here? Rather like the ECB's support of Alistair Cook, there may be an intransigence and stubbornness over the T20 and 50 over formats. They must save face. They cannot backtrack yet again. So, expect the formats to remain in place until at least 2017. Tragic for county cricket but little they can do but toe the line. 2014 will be put down as a glitch by the ECB - 'we need time for the public to get used to the Friday evenings and 50 over formats etc..' and anyway, county cricket will be saved by the Australians coming to town in 2015. Look what happened to public interest in 2013. I am sure the ECB spin will go into overtime. Every few years, county cricket seems doomed and against the ropes, yet like some Houdini trick, it continues to survive. The ECB will simply keep throwing money at the counties for their survival. They are determined to stick with 18 counties; determined to remain with 16 Championship matches; and determined to see their edicts through. The counties will have to grin and bear it. They have no option. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/27371063
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2014 7:22:51 GMT
Interesting remark about Durham on cricinfo: "Over the course of 24 months, the club have cut their cricket budget from something around £1.9m per year to something around £850,000 per year."
Thats's almost a 60 per cent cut in playing resources, so real credit to them for still coming fifth in the LVCC and winning the 50 overs cup.
Time perhaps for the 'small' clubs to stop moaning that money means cricket is no longer a level playing field and ''man up'' : it's about leadership, coaching, desire, attitude and grit rather than cash and Collingwood and Lewis (and Geoff Cook who I believe is still around somewhere in the background, despite his heart attack last year) have done an impressive job in motivating a young group of almost entirely homegrown players to achieve far more in 2014 than several far more expensively assembled squads.
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Post by fraudster on Sept 27, 2014 15:50:08 GMT
That's very commendable - hats off to Durham. So what's our cricket budget?
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Post by hhsussex on Sept 30, 2014 11:13:35 GMT
Another day, another angle on the county game and its future from George Dobell in cricinfo The route of all good in the English gameThis time the dodgy one runs through the various issues hampering county clubs from providing the public with good quality competitive cricket in a customer-oriented environment - the abandonment of one-day cricket on Sundays, the extension of T20 throughout the season and often under floodlights, the dearth of experienced overseas players, ditto of spin bowlers and the complete abandonment of first-class cricket in August - before coming up with this curious set of statements:".. while the ECB have recently received several requests from counties on these lines - specifically, they asked for the start of the T20 season to be pushed back at least two weeks - it appears the current schedule will be given another season or two to take shape. Most would agree that the 2014 fixture list was substantially better than 2013.."
Who are these people who thought the 2014 fixture list was better than 2013? The point is that no-one, not the members, the clubs themselves, and certainly not the pay-at-the-gates customers liked the absence of cricket in August and the shoehorning of half of the programme into the spring months. And did county chairmen ask for the start of T20 to be pushed back? I thought that most wanted it to start later, i.e. forward. Maybe that's what he means but he's a bit too lazy to check what he's written, like the wonderful homophone in the title of his piece. The problem with Dobell is not that he lacks ideas, and usually skill in expressing them, it is that he tries to be too clever, to keep the pot boiling. In the end this article tells us nothing that is not already known, and offers no solutions. Look at these closing sentences for empty-headed vacuity: " ..few would deny that a lack of cricket in state schools and a lack of cricket on free-to-air television - or the internet - were significant factors. And until those factors are resolved, English cricket will always be pushing against the tide. Yet the roots of almost everything good in English cricket can still be found in the county game. And if all involved believed in it just a little more, it could produce an even greater harvest." I'm sure that all - or almost all - of the people contributing to this forum believe passionately in the English county game, but where is that belief going to get us? What is really needed is a strategic overhaul of the game that tackles the concerns of dwindling markets for most kinds of sport (apart from soccer), cultural issues of exposure to the game during childhood and adolescence (both school playing fields and free to air tv exposure), the rival imperatives of a strong English national game and a thriving decentralised competition, and the ability for clubs to establish and maintain a strong local brand identity and loyalty in an age of consumer choice and shifting, temporary allegiances. Now that would be a debate!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2014 11:52:07 GMT
First piece he has written this season that forgets to mention Jonathan Trott!
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Sept 30, 2014 12:47:58 GMT
hhs, While the builders nip off to the local cafe for lunch (they are too wealthy these days to bother about a packed lunch!) I found your comments about GD and his article most interesting. My understanding is: GD is being encouraged by the ‘Cricinfo’ hierarchy to be controversial and edgy. He is now viewed by some as the ‘enfant terrible’ of cricket journalism. That is good for him and good for ‘Cricinfo’. Therefore, this particular article is somewhat disappointing. Where are the juicy bits? On this Sussex forum he is regularly discussed. Therefore, his approach overall must have worked. I question whether he actually believes, sometimes, in the varied views he writes. Does he truly believe that, "The 2014 fixture list was substantially better than 2013.."? For in the world of 24 hour news where twitter has only added to the increasing cacophony or as one journalist recently described it, “The unstoppable media monster that consumes everything in its wake”, how does any publication get noticed? The noise is excruciating and incessant. Therefore, perhaps, controversy is the easiest way? But controversy can lead to a garbled schizoid imbalance where one second a cricket journalist is praising an authority, the next criticising it. Therefore, balance becomes an even more rare commodity. In the past, there has always been an uneasy alliance between cricket authorities and journalists. Straitjacket appeasement is often the way as in return the journo gains exclusive news, player interviews, along with a juicy red cherry on top. Therefore, GDs approach is dangerous. If he becomes too controversial, the interviews may dry up and ‘Cricinfo’ could be given the cold shoulder. So, then it is down to power. Who is more powerful and influential? The ECB and county cricket or ‘Cricinfo’ and there lyes the two century long power struggle between the media and the establishment. One answer is for a county club to be as open, honest and transparent as possible. And for that Sussex should be given a big pat on the back. Whilst the journalist must show fairness and balance and where compromise is due, see the positive benefits of this rather than the negative. Yet, the friction between both parties is growing. Especially when the ECB have become ever more dictatorial, stubborn and intransigent. Add to this, the growing number of local sports journalists who see their jobs on the line as circulation figures decrease and readers turn to twitter or the web for more edgy comment and controversy, they are now realising their appeasement may cause them to lose their job. Personally, the only possible creed to follow is balance and fairness - praise where praise is due and criticise fairly when it is warranted. This, then, keeps everyone honest and leaves the playing field level. As for cricket in general, it is a niche specialist sport which is being eaten alive by the media's exhaustive coverage of football. Is there a magic bullet to turn around its dwindling popularity? Everything that the ECB do comes to little; all the tinkering, changing, new ideas, formats... where has it got the sport? At present, what we do know is this: A hot summer coupled with a home Ashes series attracts more people to watch cricket. Everything else could be viewed as humbug. So, roll on 2015, then.
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Post by fraudster on Sept 30, 2014 20:08:30 GMT
Another day, another angle on the county game and its future from George Dobell in cricinfo The route of all good in the English gameThis time the dodgy one runs through the various issues hampering county clubs from providing the public with good quality competitive cricket in a customer-oriented environment - the abandonment of one-day cricket on Sundays, the extension of T20 throughout the season and often under floodlights, the dearth of experienced overseas players, ditto of spin bowlers and the complete abandonment of first-class cricket in August - before coming up with this curious set of statements:".. while the ECB have recently received several requests from counties on these lines - specifically, they asked for the start of the T20 season to be pushed back at least two weeks - it appears the current schedule will be given another season or two to take shape. Most would agree that the 2014 fixture list was substantially better than 2013.."
Who are these people who thought the 2014 fixture list was better than 2013? The point is that no-one, not the members, the clubs themselves, and certainly not the pay-at-the-gates customers liked the absence of cricket in August and the shoehorning of half of the programme into the spring months. And did county chairmen ask for the start of T20 to be pushed back? I thought that most wanted it to start later, i.e. forward. Maybe that's what he means but he's a bit too lazy to check what he's written, like the wonderful homophone in the title of his piece. The problem with Dobell is not that he lacks ideas, and usually skill in expressing them, it is that he tries to be too clever, to keep the pot boiling. In the end this article tells us nothing that is not already known, and offers no solutions. Look at these closing sentences for empty-headed vacuity: " ..few would deny that a lack of cricket in state schools and a lack of cricket on free-to-air television - or the internet - were significant factors. And until those factors are resolved, English cricket will always be pushing against the tide. Yet the roots of almost everything good in English cricket can still be found in the county game. And if all involved believed in it just a little more, it could produce an even greater harvest." I'm sure that all - or almost all - of the people contributing to this forum believe passionately in the English county game, but where is that belief going to get us? What is really needed is a strategic overhaul of the game that tackles the concerns of dwindling markets for most kinds of sport (apart from soccer), cultural issues of exposure to the game during childhood and adolescence (both school playing fields and free to air tv exposure), the rival imperatives of a strong English national game and a thriving decentralised competition, and the ability for clubs to establish and maintain a strong local brand identity and loyalty in an age of consumer choice and shifting, temporary allegiances. Now that would be a debate! Do me a favour. You boys with your unrelenting slating of Dobell is getting boring and is clearly vindictive. That last paragraph you quote is spot on - well said George. And guess who's hovered over the 'like' button again, whenever his mate posts or someone (his mate) says something p***y about GD. You boys are the new Inner Circle, it's been coming a long time. I'm gonna break you like RFawden broke the old one. Nah, just kidding but seriously, you are the NIC - you have become what you hated.
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Post by flashblade on Sept 30, 2014 20:23:19 GMT
Another day, another angle on the county game and its future from George Dobell in cricinfo The route of all good in the English gameThis time the dodgy one runs through the various issues hampering county clubs from providing the public with good quality competitive cricket in a customer-oriented environment - the abandonment of one-day cricket on Sundays, the extension of T20 throughout the season and often under floodlights, the dearth of experienced overseas players, ditto of spin bowlers and the complete abandonment of first-class cricket in August - before coming up with this curious set of statements:".. while the ECB have recently received several requests from counties on these lines - specifically, they asked for the start of the T20 season to be pushed back at least two weeks - it appears the current schedule will be given another season or two to take shape. Most would agree that the 2014 fixture list was substantially better than 2013.."
Who are these people who thought the 2014 fixture list was better than 2013? The point is that no-one, not the members, the clubs themselves, and certainly not the pay-at-the-gates customers liked the absence of cricket in August and the shoehorning of half of the programme into the spring months. And did county chairmen ask for the start of T20 to be pushed back? I thought that most wanted it to start later, i.e. forward. Maybe that's what he means but he's a bit too lazy to check what he's written, like the wonderful homophone in the title of his piece. The problem with Dobell is not that he lacks ideas, and usually skill in expressing them, it is that he tries to be too clever, to keep the pot boiling. In the end this article tells us nothing that is not already known, and offers no solutions. Look at these closing sentences for empty-headed vacuity: " ..few would deny that a lack of cricket in state schools and a lack of cricket on free-to-air television - or the internet - were significant factors. And until those factors are resolved, English cricket will always be pushing against the tide. Yet the roots of almost everything good in English cricket can still be found in the county game. And if all involved believed in it just a little more, it could produce an even greater harvest." I'm sure that all - or almost all - of the people contributing to this forum believe passionately in the English county game, but where is that belief going to get us? What is really needed is a strategic overhaul of the game that tackles the concerns of dwindling markets for most kinds of sport (apart from soccer), cultural issues of exposure to the game during childhood and adolescence (both school playing fields and free to air tv exposure), the rival imperatives of a strong English national game and a thriving decentralised competition, and the ability for clubs to establish and maintain a strong local brand identity and loyalty in an age of consumer choice and shifting, temporary allegiances. Now that would be a debate! Do me a favour. You boys with your unrelenting slating of Dobell is getting boring and is clearly vindictive. That last paragraph you quote is spot on - well said George. And guess who's hovered over the 'like' button again, whenever his mate posts or someone (his mate) says something p***y about GD. You boys are the new Inner Circle, it's been coming a long time. I'm gonna break you like RFawden broke the old one. Nah, just kidding but seriously, you are the NIC - you have become what you hated. I almost 'like' your post, fraudster. I remember reading somewhere that all message boards eventually develop an inner circle. I hope it's not going to happen here - again.
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Post by hhsussex on Sept 30, 2014 20:32:57 GMT
Another day, another angle on the county game and its future from George Dobell in cricinfo The route of all good in the English gameThis time the dodgy one runs through the various issues hampering county clubs from providing the public with good quality competitive cricket in a customer-oriented environment - the abandonment of one-day cricket on Sundays, the extension of T20 throughout the season and often under floodlights, the dearth of experienced overseas players, ditto of spin bowlers and the complete abandonment of first-class cricket in August - before coming up with this curious set of statements:".. while the ECB have recently received several requests from counties on these lines - specifically, they asked for the start of the T20 season to be pushed back at least two weeks - it appears the current schedule will be given another season or two to take shape. Most would agree that the 2014 fixture list was substantially better than 2013.."
Who are these people who thought the 2014 fixture list was better than 2013? The point is that no-one, not the members, the clubs themselves, and certainly not the pay-at-the-gates customers liked the absence of cricket in August and the shoehorning of half of the programme into the spring months. And did county chairmen ask for the start of T20 to be pushed back? I thought that most wanted it to start later, i.e. forward. Maybe that's what he means but he's a bit too lazy to check what he's written, like the wonderful homophone in the title of his piece. The problem with Dobell is not that he lacks ideas, and usually skill in expressing them, it is that he tries to be too clever, to keep the pot boiling. In the end this article tells us nothing that is not already known, and offers no solutions. Look at these closing sentences for empty-headed vacuity: " ..few would deny that a lack of cricket in state schools and a lack of cricket on free-to-air television - or the internet - were significant factors. And until those factors are resolved, English cricket will always be pushing against the tide. Yet the roots of almost everything good in English cricket can still be found in the county game. And if all involved believed in it just a little more, it could produce an even greater harvest." I'm sure that all - or almost all - of the people contributing to this forum believe passionately in the English county game, but where is that belief going to get us? What is really needed is a strategic overhaul of the game that tackles the concerns of dwindling markets for most kinds of sport (apart from soccer), cultural issues of exposure to the game during childhood and adolescence (both school playing fields and free to air tv exposure), the rival imperatives of a strong English national game and a thriving decentralised competition, and the ability for clubs to establish and maintain a strong local brand identity and loyalty in an age of consumer choice and shifting, temporary allegiances. Now that would be a debate! Do me a favour. You boys with your unrelenting slating of Dobell is getting boring and is clearly vindictive. That last paragraph you quote is spot on - well said George. And guess who's hovered over the 'like' button again, whenever his mate posts or someone (his mate) says something p***y about GD. You boys are the new Inner Circle, it's been coming a long time. I'm gonna break you like RFawden broke the old one. Nah, just kidding but seriously, you are the NIC - you have become what you hated. Can't help it frawdy, it's a pretty lousy article that stinks of "will this do to fill a bit of space". If you like it, that's fine. And that's the point of this forum that you can express yourself, and I can express myself and providing it doesn't get snide, then anything goes. As to circles, well...Round like a circle in a spiral Like a wheel within a wheel Never ending nor beginning On an ever spinning reel Like a snowball down a mountain Or a carnival balloon Like a carousel that's turning Running rings around the moon Like a clock whose hands are sweeping Past the minutes of its face And the world is like an apple Whirling silently in space Like the circles that you find In the windmills of your mind
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 8:01:49 GMT
Astonishing statistic - 20 per cent of attendances at all group stage T20 Bash matches in 2014 came at the Oval.
That is to say, seven matches out of 126 accounted for one fifth of all ticket sales.
Given this ability to draw big crowds to the ground it is perhaps surprising that Surrey's neighbours - Sussex, Middlesex, Essex, Kent - do not lease the ground more often to play there.
To date Middlesex have played two T20 'home' games at The Oval and Kent one, but that's it. The Kent game v Essex at the Oval produced the biggest 'home' T20 crowd in Kent's history.
Perhaps it is time next season for Sussex to follow the example of Kent and Middlesex and lease The Oval and see if we can fill it? Playing Sussex's derby games v Kent, Miidx, Essex and Surrey themselves there would be an obvious place to start such an experiment. Those four games might attract a combined total of 16-20,000 at Hove. At The Oval, they should be able to pull in 55-65,000.
Given the huge gaps we saw in the 2014 fixture list, there should be sufficient dates on which the ground is available,too. More work for the Surrey groundsmen, but the biggest square in the country means they are unlikely to run out of pitches...
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Post by hhsussex on Oct 3, 2014 8:34:42 GMT
Astonishing statistic - 20 per cent of attendances at all group stage T20 Bash matches in 2014 came at the Oval. That is to say, seven matches out of 126 accounted for one fifth of all ticket sales. Given this ability to draw big crowds to the ground it is perhaps surprising that Surrey's neighbours - Sussex, Middlesex, Essex, Kent - do not lease the ground more often to play there. To date Middlesex have played two T20 'home' games at The Oval and Kent one, but that's it. The Kent game v Essex at the Oval produced the biggest 'home' T20 crowd in Kent's history. Perhaps it is time next season for Sussex to follow the example of Kent and Middlesex and lease The Oval and see if we can fill it? Playing Sussex's derby games v Kent, Miidx, Essex and Surrey themselves there would be an obvious place to start such an experiment. Those four games might attract a combined total of 16-20,000 at Hove. At The Oval, they should be able to pull in 55-65,000. Given the huge gaps we saw in the 2014 fixture list, there should be sufficient dates on which the ground is available,too. More work for the Surrey groundsmen, but the biggest square in the country means they are unlikely to run out of pitches... As you say, borderman, more work for the groundsman, but this sort of ground-sharing scheme could be a model for the future, providing the smaller counties with a large-scale arena in which to play, with the chance to earn really good revenues, which in turn can be ploughed back into the counties' general treasuries, after paying for the ground-hire. Sussex and Kent supporters who passionately enjoy this kind of cricket would make the fairly easy trip up to the Oval to watch their teams and have plenty of southbound trains late in the evening. The concept could be extended to other parts of the country, with perhaps Leicester and Derby increasing their own revenues by playing matches at Trent Bridge, and Worcester and Gloucester playing at Birmingham. If there was sufficient enthusiasm for the idea and the finances added up, then this could be a real alternative to the current mindless fixture-jam and the absurd logistics of charging up and down the country between championship and T20 games. The pitch usage issue could be addressed by using drop-in pitches specially for these games where long life quality isn't of too much concern. Lots of negatives too, but a good discussion point.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2014 8:49:01 GMT
Certainly makes more sense than playing county matches in the Caribbean and Spain, which according to cricinfo is "not nearly such a far-fetched scenario as some might have you believe" (although personally I continue to believe it is even more far-fetched than the non-existent chance that the ECB might create a sensible fixture list for next season).
Such ground sharing co-operation also makes more sense than Sussex's evident intention to pull up the Hove drawbridge and withdraw from all reciprocal agreements with its neighbouring counties!
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Post by fraudster on Oct 3, 2014 17:34:02 GMT
No, don't like that. How much have we spent on Hove, mainly for the purpose of T20s? I take the point but no, scratch it.
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