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Post by Wicked Cricket on Mar 18, 2016 10:13:06 GMT
WOW! Now that's a surprise. Why did it take so long? The nightclubs of Brighton & Hove will be cheering with approval. The final snub for Chris Adams. But was he ever in the frame?
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Post by jonboy on Mar 18, 2016 10:16:36 GMT
Will he be registered as a player, the original brief was for a batting coach, who would also play for the seconds
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Post by flashblade on Mar 18, 2016 10:23:46 GMT
The only downside is that it's yet another old boy appointment. We still desperately need some new blood. SCCC is a bit like Norfolk, if you know what I mean.
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Mar 18, 2016 10:51:58 GMT
Fb, A shrewd move by Sussex. They needed someone with the popularity and kudos of Adams but someone who wouldn't upset the status quo and coaching staff pecking order. Muzza fits the bill perfectly. He may lack the international and county experience of Adams and his dynamic mental thrust but that is a small price to pay. Muzza was never captain material which says it all. He is more a follower than a leader and, therefore, will fit in well with the Sussex mindset. Supporters will be happy with the appointment but as you suggest, "The family hive rules the waves", where assertive leaders are not welcome but followers are. Sid: “Sorry mate, you don’t fit in to the Sussex way. You’re too self-assured, too assertive and not timorous enough. You’ll eat the coaching staff for breakfast… And that leaves no-one for me.”
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2016 11:01:07 GMT
On paper a heavyweight appointment, compared to the other names on the coaching staff.
But is this his first coaching appointment?
Because I know what fb means about Norfolk. The entire Sussex coaching set-up - Davis, Greenfield, Hopkinson, Lewis and now Goodwin - have never coached anywhere other than Hove in their entire careers, I think?
Coaching seems to be a job in which the most successful practitioners move around a lot, expanding their CVs and the range of their experience. Someone like Farbrace, for example, has England women, Sri Lanka, Kent, Yorks and now Team England on his CV. It's one of the reasons he's become one of the msot respected coaches in world cricket. But like a 19th century country vicar, Sussex seem to disapprove of such promiscuity and to be absolutely terrifed of anyone who might import alien new methods and scary fresh thinking from the outside world.
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Post by flashblade on Mar 18, 2016 11:04:01 GMT
On paper a heavyweight appointment, compared to the other names on the coaching staff. But is this his first coaching appointment? Because I know what fb means about Norfolk. The entire Sussex coaching set-up - Davis, Greenfield, Hopkinson, Lewis and now Goodwin - have never coached anywhere other than Hove in their entire coaching careers, I think? Coaching seems to be a job in which the most successful practitioners move around a lot, expanding their CVs and the range of their experience. Someone like Farbrace, for example, has England women, Sri Lanka, Kent, Yorks and now Team England on his CV. It's one of the reasons he's become one of the msot respected coaxches in the world. But like a 19th century country vicar, Sussex seem to disapprove of such promiscuity and to be absolutely terrifed of anyone who might import alien new methods and scary fresh thinking from the outside world. Spot on, BM.
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Post by irishexile on Mar 18, 2016 11:08:18 GMT
Going to stick my head above the parapet on this one - a poor appointment in my view.
Unless I've missed something, the role was originally batting and second XI coach - no mention in the press release of the latter, so one can ask what is to happen with the 2nd XI this year. From a development perspective the 2nd XI is arguably more important than the 1st XI.
Last time I checked, it cost over £10K to fly in a coach and family from Australia (buisness class), so that's additional funding that presumably wouldn't have been budgeted for, and an interesting decision given this year's projected budget position. Bear in mind accommodation, car, visas etc too and the add on costs of importing for such a role are very high.
Not aware of Murray having held any kind of coaching role previously, so what "previous" did he have to sway the interview panel.
In all, an expensive appointment made late on in pre-season - seems a bit of a panic move. BUT Murray is a good man with Sussex in his heart so good luck to him and the club.
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Post by oddsox on Mar 18, 2016 11:15:15 GMT
No problem with Goodwin as a player but a coach? He was never thought good enough to be Captain. Has he done his coaching badges since leaving Glam? The ad stated level 3 or above and as already said it included the role of 2nd Xl coach. Anyone but Adams eh Sussex! I fear for the future. I hope I am wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2016 11:29:41 GMT
Most clubs build up a culture that dictates how they do things - and most clubs have quite different cultures, which is why cross-fertilisation is helpful and in-breeding is hazardous.
I'll give you one recent example. The young keeper Ryan Davies left Kent for Somerset at the end of the last season. Here's what he had to say at the start of this year's pre-season about the difference between coaching and training methods at the two clubs:
“I’m starting to pick things up, but there seems to be a lot more things done here at Somerset than I have been used to previously. The training is a lot more full on and structured which is really good and I can tell that I am going to be better for it come the summer.Darren Veness (Somerset CCC Head of Strength & Conditioning) has been good with me and realizes that I haven’t done a lot of the things before.”
Now I've no idea whether the Somerset method is better than the Kent method. They're clearly very different and possibly both have their merits. And no doubt the 'Sussex way' is different again. But a good coach who has knocked around a bit and has experience in different environments surely combines best practice from all those he has worked with. The Sussex approach simply doesn't permit that.
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Post by flashblade on Mar 18, 2016 13:48:25 GMT
Most clubs build up a culture that dictates how they do things - and most clubs have quite different cultures, which is why cross-fertilisation is helpful and in-breeding is hazardous.
I'll give you one recent example. The young keeper Ryan Davies left Kent for Somerset at the end of the last season. Here's what he had to say at the start of this year's pre-season about the difference between coaching and training methods at the two clubs: “I’m starting to pick things up, but there seems to be a lot more things done here at Somerset than I have been used to previously. The training is a lot more full on and structured which is really good and I can tell that I am going to be better for it come the summer.Darren Veness (Somerset CCC Head of Strength & Conditioning) has been good with me and realizes that I haven’t done a lot of the things before.” Now I've no idea whether the Somerset method is better than the Kent method. They're clearly very different and possibly both have their merits. And no doubt the 'Sussex way' is different again. But a good coach who has knocked around a bit and has experience in different environments surely combines best practice from all those he has worked with. The Sussex approach simply doesn't permit that. Thinking about it, I wonder if the closed shop/in-breeding approach hasn't already damaged Sussex over the past few years. When we look back, many of the players have under-performed, we have more than our fair share of injuries, team morale has been noticeably awful, Robinson was left in post for far too long, and (unlike in the Golden Years) we have been punching below our weight for some time. So, based on the past, I think we have every right to be nervous about the future influence of the coaching setup. BTW, can someone remind us what coaching experience and qualifications Murray Goodwin has.
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Post by hhsussex on Mar 18, 2016 15:24:47 GMT
borderman, flashblade and others have all made some good points about the selection of Goodwin: the lack of obvious coaching experience, the divergence from the advertised role of batting AND 2nd XI coach, the continuation of non-contentious "family" relationships. There also some fairly odd comments in the Sussex Press Release advertising the appointment:
Goodwin... said of his new appointment, “I believe I can bring to a very talented squad some belief and options on playing certain situations in all forms of the game."
What kind of situations does he have in mind? He goes on to talk about adding "a winning culture to this talented squad", so is this about the batting responding to a formidable total set by the side batting first, which isn't very complimentary to Jon Lewis's stewardship of the fast bowlers, or is he talking about adaptability of batsmen to respond to different situations between different forms of the game i.e.responses to being 20-3 on the first day of a championship game being radically different to being 20-3 after 5 overs of a T20 match? Or is he just being inarticulate? Perhaps he's better at doing things than analysing them and explaining them to others?
Then there is his own confirmation that, as the release says, the "..recruitment process... attracted a strong group of candidates with international as well as domestic experience." I wonder if that included those who had coaching experience at international and/or domestic level or was confined to players? Sussex are fortunate in having a Head Coach with a lot of coaching experience following his playing career, and Mark Davis seems to be being followed in this way by Carl Hopkinson. The problem is that we now have a bowling coach with limited experience, a youth coach straight from playing, and a batting coach who excelled as a player but doesn't appear to have coached, certainly not at first class level. The only thing they have in common is that they were all hired as Sussex players during the Moores/Robinson era. That does seem to raise the question delicately alluded to, but not spelt out, by flashblade that there might be a genetic problem in that all of these fine players and willing coaches have been conditioned to a certain set of attitudes and responses to situations on the field over many years. However, they are now faced with a different challenge that might call for quite new thinking. Can they adapt to the new circumstances, the absolute primacy of getting first place in Division Two in order to escape the likely spiral of mediocrity in an expanded division in 2017 and thereafter, with imbalance and unpredictability implicit from the fixtures?
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Mar 18, 2016 16:04:09 GMT
The one major aspect Goodwin can bring to the squad is an understanding of how to win. Like Adams, he won goodness knows how many trophies. Something a majority of the present squad have little understanding of.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2016 17:04:36 GMT
Very interesting that at the AGM both the new captain and coach admitted that standards of fitness and application had fallen in recent years. But why? Who is responsible? Board too close to management, so don't ask hard questions? Probably yes.
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Mar 18, 2016 17:24:23 GMT
fred,
What else was said at the AGM?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2016 18:04:40 GMT
Very interesting that at the AGM both the new captain and coach admitted that standards of fitness and application had fallen in recent years. That's a staggering admission for Davis and Wright to have made, if that is what was said. Standards of fitness are down to the fitness and conditioning coach, but Robinson has to be held responsible for lack of oversight. It was his job to go to fit&con coach and say 'this squad are not properly prepared'. Lack of application is totally down to Robinson who stayed too long and took his eye off the ball in the last two seasons. Once he applied for the England job, everybody knew he wanted out and the decline in standards was inevitable. Joyce must also shoulder some of the blame and, in addition to Robinson losing focus while he applied for jobs elsewhere, the other point from which I'd date the decline is when we were told that Joyce was still directing the team when he was away playing with Ireland. I recall one particular game when Ed was playing in Holland and the Sussex team were playing a CC game in Taunton without him. There was a contentious captaincy decision (I forget what the issue was but it was the toss or not enforcing the follow-on or something similar). I remember vividly that we were told by the then vice-chairman that Joyce was in permanent contact and had taken the contentious decision from many hundreds of miles away, and we shouldn't blame Nash or whoever was meant to be captain in the field. It it was true, it was an utterly bonkers way to run a professional cricket team. The lack of focus and confused leadership over the last two seasons was evident for all to see - and that's not hindsight because many said so at the time. My admiration for Wright and Davis is only enhanced by them speaking out so honestly. They didn't quite name and shame, by the sound of it - but it was as good as...
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