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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 19:24:56 GMT
When an opening bat gets bowled round the back of his legs on the flatest wicket since Christopher Columbus discovered the world is round, then he has not simnply lost form, he has lost the plot.
But it was hardly a surprise. Joyce won't open because he feels mentally drained after captaining Sussex in the field for two, three or at most three and a bit sessions. Cook had been captaining England for five and a bit sessions before he eventually had to go out and open the batting.
For me, it's very simple. If he wants to carry on as captain, he drops down the order, as Joyce has done.If he wants to continue opening, he gives up the captaincy. He can do both in a winning side. But England are so far from being that, he surely has to give up one or the other. As there doesn't appear to be an alternartive captain, he probably needs to drop down the order.
The other lesson I'd take from today if I was James Whittaker, is that against sides from the sub-continent, you play a proper spinner or you rely on seam. Using someone like Mo Ali as your fifth bowler is suicide.Indian batsmen were scoring runs off better spinners than that before they were even out of short trousers.
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Post by hhsussex on Jul 10, 2014 20:41:43 GMT
When an opening bat gets bowled round the back of his legs on the flatest wicket since Christopher Columbus discovered the world is round, then he has not simnply lost form, he has lost the plot. But it was hardly a surprise. Joyce won't open because he feels mentally drained after captaining Sussex in the field for two, three or at most three and a bit sessions. Cook had been captaining England for five and a bit sessions before he eventually had to go out and open the batting. For me, it's very simple. If he wants to carry on as captain, he drops down the order, as Joyce has done.If he wants to continue opening, he gives up the captaincy. He can do both in a winning side. But England are so far from being that, he surely has to give up one or the other. As there doesn't appear to be an alternartive captain, he probably needs to drop down the order. The other lesson I'd take from today if I was James Whittaker, is that against sides from the sub-continent, you play a proper spinner or you rely on seam. Using someone like Mo Ali as your fifth bowler is suicide.Indian batsmen were scoring runs off better spinners than that before they were even out of short trousers. Well, of course, you're right in all the key areas of your analysis, and yet....is it so simple? First of all " there doesn't appear to be an alternartive captain". If your thesis is that we have to have Cook as captain and therefore he has to bat at 4 or lower, can you be certain that we have to have Cook and no other who might do better? I believe there are two possible alternative captains within the existing team, with some demerits, its true, but both potentially capable of being better tacticians, having a wider understanding of the players on the field as individuals, and therefore of how they need to be understood and handled sympathetically, in order for them to give their best as part of a team effort. They are Bell and Root. Bell has been saying that he doesn't want to be captain for so long that it has become an article of faith to say that Bell isn'y captaincy material, he says so himself. And yet, who is there now in that team who has the reputation for coolness under pressure, the ability to lead from the front, and who has the experience to pass on to younger players, other than Bell? It could be the magic glue that has been missing, that turns him from being England's most stylish player into a truly great player. He has aggression and has shown that many times before; he has experience of every sort of pitch and opposition; he has to take on a bigger responsibility to carve out his name. Root is younger, has not yet made his place inviolable, could be seen as too raw. But he has resilience, and his wind-ups of Warner and others have shown that he doesn't shy away from confrontation. Added to that he is a batsman capable of adjusting himself to the needs of his side and a first rate fielder in any position. If Bell could not take on the job for any reason, then it would have to be Root. Why not pre-empt the car crash and go straight for him? As to the spinner, again I agree, but Mooen could be a good spinner if he were to be given longer spells. Even so we desperately need to see a flash of shining white feathers from amid the muddy plumage of our potential slow bowling stars. Changing the pitches they bowl on would help, but so too would changing the mentality that, for the First division, says 4 Fast bowlers good, 6 in a squad and a token dart-thrower better. We may have to follow South Africa and Australia, and give nationality to an overseas proficient - but don't tell Nigel Farage! |
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Post by fraudster on Jul 10, 2014 20:51:50 GMT
So an opener can't captain? Rubbish. It's the criticism that's rolled on for ages from all quarters that is troubling Cook. Christ knows what Joyce's issue is but he was scoring and we were winning when he last opened so it don't stack up to me.
I'm bepuzzled by what England, or Notts, or any outground there might be to blame, have produced for a track. Our strengths? Seam. Their strengths? Spin and bat. Unbelogical.
Snoozefest, hope we lose zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 21:22:44 GMT
As to the spinner, again I agree, but Mooen could be a good spinner if he were to be given longer spells. But when he bowls 18 overs in an innings without a single maiden, how can you expect Cook to give him longer spells? It's the same problem Zaidi presents as a bowler for Captain Joyce at county level... |
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Post by grandavefan on Jul 11, 2014 8:03:36 GMT
Except Mooen can bat! Apart from that they are the same type,
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maxh
2nd XI player
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Post by maxh on Jul 11, 2014 12:37:15 GMT
The draw was evens after the first session. Left it alone didn't I. Silly boy.
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maxh
2nd XI player
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Post by maxh on Jul 11, 2014 12:51:19 GMT
Robson out LBW though there was an edge. Ridiculous.
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maxh
2nd XI player
Posts: 96
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Post by maxh on Jul 11, 2014 14:31:29 GMT
Another one that would have been overturned there.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 14:39:50 GMT
England have now lost six wickets in 20 overs. Having criticised the "lifeless" wicket for being loaded unfairly in favour of the bastsmen, Broad surely now owes his team a century on such a batsman's paradise?
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Post by flashblade on Jul 11, 2014 14:51:05 GMT
England have now lost six wickets in 20 overs. Having criticised the "lifeless" wicket for being loaded unfairly in favour of the bastsmen, Broad surely now owes his team a century on such a batsman's paradise? comment on Cricinfo: "I wish they would stop changing the pitches between innings. It's just not fair. "  |
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Post by hhsussex on Jul 11, 2014 15:25:40 GMT
England have now lost six wickets in 20 overs. Having criticised the "lifeless" wicket for being loaded unfairly in favour of the bastsmen, Broad surely now owes his team a century on such a batsman's paradise? comment on Cricinfo: "I wish they would stop changing the pitches between innings. It's just not fair. " Also a comment on Cricinfo: "Your comments on the wickets today read 'loose shot', 'right to be peeved', 'poor decision', 'inexplicable shot', 'doubtless a hotspot'. Only one 'cracker of a ball'. So we have one decent ball and a bunch of poor shots/poor decisinos. The pitch is still fine!!" So three poor shots and three decisions that DRS might well have changed. Not to excuse England, because three poor shots is too many on an indifferent wicket where the bounce is spongy, thinking particularly of Moeen's bouncer-that-wasn't-really. Just another reason to lament this greedy, stupid series and the silly politics played by BCCI and ECB. |
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Post by flashblade on Jul 12, 2014 7:48:47 GMT
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Post by mrsdoyle on Jul 13, 2014 12:30:16 GMT
Would just like to say that thanks to the imbecilic greed of the ECB we are going to have to decide soon after lunch whether to pursue a win at all costs or settle for the draw because the next test starts Thursday and we have to protect the bowlers, look what happened to Anderson last year. On top of this the pitch is a pig to bowl on in all likelihood to ensure the game goes five days to increase takings at the bar. We will have 7 tests this summer, umpteen T20s and ODIs, this follows on from back to back Ashes tests, and will be followed by yet another series against Australia next year. I know that in the old days bowlers played far more for their counties but the intensity is less in the county game, we cannot keep having back to back tests with no rest days. Rant over.
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Post by hhsussex on Jul 13, 2014 16:07:55 GMT
Ill let Warren Zevon and Black Francis have the final word to say on this farce
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 16:21:51 GMT
Well I agree with this paragraph: "Sometimes you need characters who ruffle and question and offend. Sometimes you need characters who have the arrogance and aggression to change what appears an inevitable course. Sometimes you need the sort of player a mild-mannered former England captain might describe as "an absolute c***". " Buy my goodness, he's a total embarrassment in that 'polite enquires' video with Jarrod Kimber at the top of the article, isn't he?  |
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