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Post by trolleybuss on Nov 22, 2023 10:32:25 GMT
Am not talking just about Orr specifically although I do belive Wells that it's more than money. Am taking about the last 3 years when we have lost Nash Salt Wells Briggs Jordan Topley Evans Brown Garton and now Orr. Bit of a theme don't you think. What don't you understand about that?!! All left under Andrew and Greenfield so the question is why did they all leave if the 2 clowns did such a fantastic job. Can't wait to hear!!
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Post by trolleybuss on Nov 22, 2023 10:33:58 GMT
Am not talking just about Orr specifically although I do belive Wells that it's more than money. Am taking about the last 3 years when we have lost Nash Salt Wells Briggs Jordan Topley Evans Brown Garton and now Orr. Bit of a theme don't you think. What don't you understand about that?!! All left under Andrew and Greenfield so the question is why did they all leave if the 2 clowns did such a fantastic job. Can't wait to hear!!
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Post by therealab1 on Nov 22, 2023 10:35:33 GMT
Am not talking just about Orr specifically although I do belive Wells that it's more than money. Am taking about the last 3 years when we have lost Nash Salt Wells Briggs Jordan Topley Evans Brown Garton and now Orr. Bit of a theme don't you think. What don't you understand about that?!! All left under Andrew and Greenfield so the question is why did they all leave if the 2 clowns did such a fantastic job. Can't wait to hear!! They had to slash the wage bill and i get why thats hugely unpopular but id rather have a club here for the long term than a bankrupt one and thats what we could have faced.
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Post by trolleybuss on Nov 22, 2023 10:43:58 GMT
Would have rather kept those players and had sone debt than have had the awful time we have had since covid. What a team that would have been if they stayed. Not sure how your an expert into those 4 counties finances but even if true most fans would rather have trophies and some debt than a team full of kids with no success. The flats and pub were supposed to bring in income which would have prevented us from getting into large debt if squeaky clean Andrew hadn't cut the wage bill.
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Post by therealab1 on Nov 22, 2023 10:51:41 GMT
You only have to read their accounts Troll its available to everyone. I couldnt give flying f**k you dont like me or my opinions but try to open your mind just a little bit.
I agree if we never lost a top player we'd be more competitive but weve been in Div 2 for 8 or 9 years is it and they were all there during that period so what makes you think things were definitely definitely definitely going to better.
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Post by trolleybuss on Nov 22, 2023 10:58:38 GMT
You need to get out more. What a sad person you are reading financual accounts from other counties. If that's what smoking those fags does to you thank god I don't!! Maybe take up tiddly winks train spotting or stamp collecting. You obviously have too much time on your hands. Say hi to your mate and tell him don't ever come back unless we need a toilet cleaner but he wouldn't do that properly.
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Post by therealab1 on Nov 22, 2023 12:34:18 GMT
You need to get out more. What a sad person you are reading financual accounts from other counties. If that's what smoking those fags does to you thank god I don't!! Maybe take up tiddly winks train spotting or stamp collecting. You obviously have too much time on your hands. Say hi to your mate and tell him don't ever come back unless we need a toilet cleaner but he wouldn't do that properly. I'm high cos of the chocolate brownies your wife gives me
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Nov 22, 2023 12:46:13 GMT
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Post by joe on Nov 22, 2023 12:46:39 GMT
I don’t know what people are trying to achieve by name calling but thats enough now please gents. Let’s stick to cricket.
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Post by wrightstuff on Nov 22, 2023 13:03:59 GMT
I'll say one thing for Farbrace.
He must have known his decision would bring a huge amount of criticism from fans and former players, but he didn't go down the, 'I want to be popular' route. He did what he believed was right.
The difficulty, I suppose, is he didn't witness Orr's first two seasons, so he is just judging on 2023. If Farbrace had been around longer, the outcome might have been different.
I don't know why Gould and Adams thought they should have a right to influence things. You give the head coach the job and tell him to get on with it. Even if you don't agree with his decision (I don't) it has to be his decision, and you have to back him (which is what Filby has said). Only after maybe 4 decisions you strongly disagree with might you think it is time to change the coach. You judge him after 3 or 4 years in the job, but you don't undermine him by intervening to change the first decision you disagree with.
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Post by therealab1 on Nov 22, 2023 13:10:10 GMT
I don’t know what people are trying to achieve by name calling but thats enough now please gents. Let’s stick to cricket. Ive had 2 days of insults Joe, i wasnt going to tolerate anymore and neither will I. I also think if your going to stoke fires dont complain when the outrage has started.
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Post by therealab1 on Nov 22, 2023 13:14:14 GMT
I'll say one thing for Farbrace. He must have known his decision would bring a huge amount of criticism from fans and former players, but he didn't go down the, 'I want to be popular' route. He did what he believed was right. The difficulty, I suppose, is he didn't witness Orr's first two seasons, so he is just judging on 2023. If Farbrace had been around longer, the outcome might have been different. I don't know why Gould and Adams thought they should have a right to influence things. You give the head coach the job and tell him to get on with it. Even if you don't agree with his decision (I don't) it has to be his decision, and you have to back him (which is what Filby has said). Only after maybe 4 decisions you strongly disagree with might you think it is time to change the coach. You judge him after 3 or 4 years in the job, but you don't undermine him by intervening to change the first decision you disagree with. 100% right. I think the problem have is they still think this is down to Rob Andrew and Keith Greenfield when it clearly isnt. I know the bulk of fans were unhappy with their tenures but it really is time to move on. We all know now how the structure and decision making works so any criticism of these decisions have to be made directly at Paul farbrace and indirectly at John Filby. I personally believe that Orr was worth a bigger contract despite a poor season last year but Farbs has made that call and now its up to him to find the players we need.
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Post by therealab1 on Nov 22, 2023 13:31:24 GMT
With furious fans, board resignations and a prized player joining a wealthier local rival, it is a tale more familiar to Premier League football than county cricket.
Sussex supporters have become used to losing players during Rob Andrew’s seven-year spell as chief executive. Popular cricketers Luke Wells, Ben Brown and recently George Garton have all left for pastures new, to some exasperation and confusion.
But Monday’s announcement that batting starlet Ali Orr would be joining Sussex’s “El Clasicoast” rivals Hampshire triggered a rare anger among an already restless fanbase and saw two former captains step away from roles at the club.
Orr was at the vanguard of a new generation of Sussex players thrust into the first team as youngsters due to the departure of more experienced heads. He is a 22-year-old local lad – born and raised in Eastbourne, educated at the prolific Bede’s School, and an academy graduate. A first-class average a tick under 40 is such that some good judges consider him a Test prospect.
But despite having a year to run on his contract, he has followed Brown along the M27 to more monied rivals with a Test ground and a Hundred team, having signed a three-year deal.
Orr’s last year at Sussex was Paul Farbrace’s first as head coach. The player had a frustrating year due to injury, while results improved under Farbrace, who was vocal about his desire to add experience to the squad.
‘We did have a clash’ At times, Farbrace was publicly critical of the players, and the beginning of the end for Orr at Sussex appears to have been a Championship game at Derby in September, when the pair had a run-in. Orr was said to have reacted with churlish, adrenalin-filled anger to being dismissed (as batsmen often do), and in response Farbrace rebuked him in front of team-mates and staff. Farbrace acknowledges there was a fall-out, but puts Orr’s departure down to the player’s agent’s desire to improve his contractual terms.
“We did have a clash in the Derby game,” said Farbrace. “But we spoke and as far as I was concerned that was sorted. I have no bad feeling towards Ali.
“At the end of the season, his agent wanted to increase his contract. I said we were happy to lengthen it for two years on top of the one he had left, but we haven’t got the funds to increase the salary.
“As a result, we gave him a 10-day window to see if he could find something else, and in that window he found a contract with Hampshire. We have since negotiated compensation with Hampshire.
“We don’t want to lose him. We want him to open in all forms of the game. But we cannot improve his terms, because we don’t have the finances to do that.
“We could have made him crack on for another season but I didn’t think that was the right thing for Ali, or the club. You could have a player for two months thinking about getting to June 1 and talking to other clubs. That is not a great place to be for either party.”
In an interview with the BBC, Sussex chairman Jon Filby admitted “tension exists between coaches and players at all times” and “that is probably one of the ‘catalysts’ that encouraged Ali to think the grass was greener elsewhere.”
‘Nothing to do with money’ Those who know him say Orr – about whom few have a bad word to say – may have struggled to get on with Farbrace after the fall-out.
Meanwhile, Alan Wells, the former Sussex captain and father of Luke, who coached Orr at Bede’s, said on X on Monday the move was “nothing to do with money”. In a rare appearance on social media, Wells Snr described himself as “totally bemused by how Sussex have managed to let go one of the best young cricketers that has played for Sussex in the past several years?”
The tweet captured the mood of Sussex fans. Former England wicketkeeper Matt Prior – a vocal critic of the club under Andrew – described it as an “absolute shocker AGAIN from Sussex”, while club legend Chris Nash joined him, describing it as a “concern” and “not a good look.”
It was no coincidence that in the hours that followed the announcement, Ian “Gunner” Gould, the former Sussex wicketkeeper who became a top international umpire, resigned from his positions on the main board at Hove and the cricket committee. On Tuesday morning, Championship-winning captain Chris Adams informed the club he would also be stepping back from the cricket committee, which is designed to advise and challenge the club’s coaching staff.
Neither man has spoken publicly on why they have quit. In an interview with the BBC, Filby said: “I don’t think that is particularly true,” – that they had stepped back based on Orr’s move, adding: “They have both been talking to me about their frustrations with their roles.”
It is understood the Orr incident might be considered the straw that broke the camel’s back. While Gould and Adams, as Filby says, did have long-standing concerns over the need for the committee while Farbrace was in charge – it had met just a handful of times this year – and had been considering their positions, they also did not want to be seen to endorse the move.
“The cricket decisions are made entirely by Paul Farbrace,” said Filby. “I am very content that the right model for Sussex is to find the best person we can to run our cricket.
“Ian helped us to move to a model where there is only one coach, but he has found it frustrating not to be involved in all the decision making. So, he has decided that being a board member isn’t for him.
“It was a similar level of frustration with Chris. He didn’t want to be associated with decisions that were not his decisions.”
Whether the move came because of a fall-out, a desire for more money or both, Filby was right when he said it “obviously is a vote of confidence in Paul Farbrace”. Farbrace will not have Orr next season, but has added the experienced Australian opener Daniel Hughes for half the campaign.
Filby added that “Sussex cricket has never been in better shape than it is now”, a statement that some fans – hoping that Orr will not be the first of another raft of departures – might disagree with.
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Post by squarepoint on Nov 22, 2023 14:14:02 GMT
Thanks Therea, that’s a pretty balanced article from The Telegraph.
The bit I don’t buy is that we had no funds available to increase Orr’s salary when we’ve just had savings from the departure of Finn, Bopara, Rawlins and Garton. Plus the non-signing of Wright and (presumably) downgrading of contracts for Ward and Currie.
I accept it might have set a precedent encouraging other players to demand an increase but in that case I’d have said something like “we have to operate within the club’s salary structure”.
Of course, lacking funds would make more sense if we had a raft of new signings up our sleeve but I’ll only believe that when I see it.
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Post by Short Leg (formerly yikemardy) on Nov 22, 2023 15:04:52 GMT
Farbrace telling Orr there was no money for a pay rise is hard to believe. There’s the Wright and Finn savings for starters. It was another way of saying “sling your hook, son”. It is exasperating that the club was so ready to lose such a talented cricketer. Ah well.
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