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Post by flashblade on May 23, 2014 11:46:03 GMT
What you say may be the case, fb, but that doesn't prevent a statement off the kind suggsted by twelvegrand which "can't go into specifics but can be a statement of principle on player conduct, support for whistleblowers and club action where wrongdoing is found." Nor does it prevent a straight news report which should at least quote the ECB statement if Sussex feels it cannot make any statement itself. As it is, the news section of the Sussex website gives every impression of living in some bizarre parallel universe where the sun always shines and T20 "frenzy" is the natural state of being. BM, I can only reiterate that I agree with your sentiments, but the club may well have been ordered by their lawyers to make no comment whatsoever. If that's the case, then it's wrong to criticise the club for its marketing stance. The complete lack of comment does, as you say, give the impression that the club is living in a "parallel universe where the sun always shines". I have some sympathy with PR department at the moment! I aim to be at the match this evening, and I fully expect to trip over a large pile of discarded (yet well worn) rose coloured specs, somewhere in the members' area.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 11:51:08 GMT
What you say may be the case, fb, but that doesn't prevent a statement off the kind suggsted by twelvegrand which "can't go into specifics but can be a statement of principle on player conduct, support for whistleblowers and club action where wrongdoing is found." Nor does it prevent a straight news report which should at least quote the ECB statement if Sussex feels it cannot make any statement itself. As it is, the news section of the Sussex website gives every impression of living in some bizarre parallel universe where the sun always shines and T20 "frenzy" is the natural state of being. BM, I can only reiterate that I agree with your sentiments, but the club may well have been ordered by their lawyers to make no comment whatsoever. If that's the case, then it's wrong to criticise the club for its marketing stance. The complete lack of comment does, as you say, give the impression that the club is living in a "parallel universe where the sun always shines". I have some sympathy with PR department at the moment! I aim to be at the match this evening, and I fully expect to trip over a large pile of discarded (yet well worn) rose coloured specs, somewhere in the members' area. Yes, watch-out for those rose-tints, fb! Sorry if this is nit-picking ,but "no comment whatsoever" is not the same as failing to report a major piece of news that should include the ECB quotes on the affair. That is not a case of the club "commenting"; it is a factual report and does not have to include any comment by or on behalf of the club. on edit: in fact all they need to do is to reproduce the report as it appeared on the ECB site here : www.ecb.co.uk/news/articles/vincent-and-arif-charged-ecb
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 12:10:32 GMT
BM, I can only reiterate that I agree with your sentiments, but the club may well have been ordered by their lawyers to make no comment whatsoever. If that's the case, then it's wrong to criticise the club for its marketing stance. The complete lack of comment does, as you say, give the impression that the club is living in a "parallel universe where the sun always shines". I have some sympathy with PR department at the moment! I aim to be at the match this evening, and I fully expect to trip over a large pile of discarded (yet well worn) rose coloured specs, somewhere in the members' area. Yes, watch-out for those rose-tints, fb! Sorry if this is nit-picking ,but "no comment whatsoever" is not the same as failing to report a major piece of news that should include the ECB quotes on the affair. That is not a case of the club "commenting"; it is a factual report and does not have to include any comment by or on behalf of the club. on edit: in fact all they need to do is to reproduce the report as it appeared on the ECB site here : www.ecb.co.uk/news/articles/vincent-and-arif-charged-ecbHow do sussex benefit from reproducing a public ECB report that has been widely covered in the press? Surely not knowing all the evidence or the eventual findings from the charges they would be wise to say nothing at all, other that to reiterate that they are co operating fully with the re opened investigation.?
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 12:25:27 GMT
How do sussex benefit from reproducing a public ECB report that has been widely covered in the press?
Or put another way, how do Sussex benefit from ignoring the first time they have been headline news since the club got a passing reference as Tony Grieg's employer during the Packer affair 37 years ago? Fortunately, they have now reported it and this appeared on the website two minutes ago: www.sussexcricket.co.uk/news-1/club-statement-2
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Post by hhsussex on May 23, 2014 12:29:56 GMT
Yes, watch-out for those rose-tints, fb! Sorry if this is nit-picking ,but "no comment whatsoever" is not the same as failing to report a major piece of news that should include the ECB quotes on the affair. That is not a case of the club "commenting"; it is a factual report and does not have to include any comment by or on behalf of the club. on edit: in fact all they need to do is to reproduce the report as it appeared on the ECB site here : www.ecb.co.uk/news/articles/vincent-and-arif-charged-ecbHow do sussex benefit from reproducing a public ECB report that has been widely covered in the press? Surely not knowing all the evidence or the eventual findings from the charges they would be wise to say nothing at all, other that to reiterate that they are co operating fully with the re opened investigation.?
Something like this perhaps? Club StatementSussex County Cricket Club is naturally extremely disappointed with the allegations surrounding the actions of Lou Vincent and Naveed Arif Gondal. Sussex have worked very closely and co-operated with the ECB Anti-Corruption unit to help establish the facts of what occurred in the two limited overs matches during 2011 and will continue to do so. We believe that the education available to players and staff and the controls that have been put in place by the ECB and the Professional Cricketers’ Association put our game in a good position as we move forward. The Club will be making no further comment on this subject at this time. On Edit: borderman got in while I was typing, but I think this is what TC had in mind. Thank goodness they have said something.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 12:56:51 GMT
Yes, as you say thank goodness they have said something (even if it had to include the dreaded "moving forward"!)
I'd like to think the game is now in the "good position" claimed on this issue and match and/or spot fixing is a thing of the past; the PCA's statement yesterday went even further in suggesting that it is now an "historical" problem.
Whether anyone has told the crooked Indian bookmakers this is the case or if the PCA has found a way to deal with human nature's tendency to be able to resist everything but temptation when a £40k bung is offered for nothing more than running yourself out or delivering a couple of wides or no-balls, is quite another matter...
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Post by twelvegrand on May 23, 2014 13:00:02 GMT
Yep - thank goodness they've said something. As I've said previously I disagree that education is anything other than part of the solution and a firmer basis for enforcing rules on reporting approaches.
In terms of rumour and speculation the main bone of contention around how this came to light is in the public domain and was reported by the press - namely that according to Vincent a player that negotiated upwards his price to 50k, then declined the offer and subsequently reported his colleagues. As I've said failure to report an approach wasn't a code of conduct offense at that point but it still matters in terms of how Sussex dealt with issues that season, the 2012 statement and I'd argue is a fair topic of discussion.
In terms of the 2012 statement I agree on its grudging nature (well done Ed Hawkins) but I'd also suggest it was very unwise especially if one of the players had not only reported he'd been approached but also reported his team mates had accepted money. I also wonder what the answer would have been if a journo had asked Sussex in 2012 if they'd released Arif on purely cricketing grounds.
Other areas of speculation have been linked to separately (e.g. the betfair thread). I have raised a concern here about the Surrey Sussex 2011 game at Whitgift from my own contemporary experience of watching that game but have not repeated the specific allegations made elsewhere against players.
None of that should stop the discussion here about how the club has handled the situation and aftermath - it was precisely that attitude that was taken last time round. We are a club that has been known to have been involved in a minimum of two fixed games in the recent past - I will still enjoy going to the games this season but I expect the club to behave in a proper manor and learn from the Essex debacle.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 13:37:18 GMT
Yes, as you say thank goodness they have said something (even if it had to include the dreaded "moving forward"!) I'd like to think the game is now in the "good position" claimed on this issue and match and/or spot fixing is a thing of the past; the PCA's statement yesterday went even further in suggesting that it is now an "historical" problem. Whether anyone has told the crooked Indian bookmakers this is the case or if the PCA has found a way to deal with human nature's tendency to be able to resist everything but temptation when a £40k bung is offered for nothing more than running yourself out or delivering a couple of wides or no-balls, is quite another matter... At least the IPL is clean right?
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Post by mrsdoyle on May 23, 2014 13:54:26 GMT
Is it possible the player said to have negotiated £50,000 to take part in a fix, then backed out, was only doing so to flush Vincent out?
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Post by flashblade on May 23, 2014 13:58:39 GMT
Yes, as you say thank goodness they have said something (even if it had to include the dreaded "moving forward"!) I'd like to think the game is now in the "good position" claimed on this issue and match and/or spot fixing is a thing of the past; the PCA's statement yesterday went even further in suggesting that it is now an "historical" problem. Whether anyone has told the crooked Indian bookmakers this is the case or if the PCA has found a way to deal with human nature's tendency to be able to resist everything but temptation when a £40k bung is offered for nothing more than running yourself out or delivering a couple of wides or no-balls, is quite another matter... At least the IPL is clean right? Yes, it's a relief that at least one T20 competition is above suspicion.
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Post by flashblade on May 23, 2014 14:11:36 GMT
Is it possible the player said to have negotiated £50,000 to take part in a fix, then backed out, was only doing so to flush Vincent out? Who knows, Mrs D? I'm getting to the point where I'm getting confused with the sheer volume of information coming out. We know of 3 matches that are "suspicious": Surrey v Sussex, Sussex v Lancs, Sussex v Kent. Have I missed any? We have heard 3 scenarios: 1. Sussex player throws a 'party' to celebrate successful fix. 2. Sussex player declares that he backed out of fix. 3. Sussex player complains afterwards that he realised the match was fixed. (is this the same as 2 above?) Can anyone match the scenarios to the individual matches?
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2014 15:27:48 GMT
Is it possible the player said to have negotiated £50,000 to take part in a fix, then backed out, was only doing so to flush Vincent out? Who knows, Mrs D? I'm getting to the point where I'm getting confused with the sheer volume of information coming out. We know of 3 matches that are "suspicious": Surrey v Sussex, Sussex v Lancs, Sussex v Kent. Have I missed any? We have heard 3 scenarios: 1. Sussex player throws a 'party' to celebrate successful fix. 2. Sussex player declares that he backed out of fix. 3. Sussex player complains afterwards that he realised the match was fixed. (is this the same as 2 above?) Can anyone match the scenarios to the individual matches? Flashblade all we really know is what the telegraph say Lou Vincent has said....no Sussex player has confirmed he backed out of a fix after accepting or reported the fix ...
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Post by twelvegrand on May 23, 2014 17:35:40 GMT
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Post by flashblade on May 24, 2014 7:43:08 GMT
Who knows, Mrs D? I'm getting to the point where I'm getting confused with the sheer volume of information coming out. We know of 3 matches that are "suspicious": Surrey v Sussex, Sussex v Lancs, Sussex v Kent. Have I missed any? We have heard 3 scenarios: 1. Sussex player throws a 'party' to celebrate successful fix. 2. Sussex player declares that he backed out of fix. 3. Sussex player complains afterwards that he realised the match was fixed. (is this the same as 2 above?) Can anyone match the scenarios to the individual matches? Flashblade all we really know is what the telegraph say Lou Vincent has said....no Sussex player has confirmed he backed out of a fix after accepting or reported the fix ... TC, I accept we only 'know' what we've been told. However, I can't see how an investigation could have been launched unless a player had reported an alleged fix.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2014 8:43:22 GMT
First of all,I dont think anyone is thinking this is anything other than a sad chapter in Sussex's history, but I am intrigued about what people on here want to happen next.Someone on here has mentioned that it seriously tarnishes the family image, or something like that. I think the analogy is very apt in this instance.
Surely, there is barely a family in the world that has not had a fair share of tragedy or whiff of scandal, often caused by some bad decisions being made. Some families often fall apart under such circumstances, whilst they mete out the blame, seek revenge/recriminations or distance themselves from the whole affair etc. The more successful ones tend to rally round, pull together, move on etc and try to make sure poor decisions arent repeated
Obviously in some cases a family members crime is so heinous that the damage is irreparable. From my observations, only Vincent and Arif's crimes are in that category, unless people think that the club is rife with similar corruption, which seems far-fetched. Others may be guilty of naivety and poor decision-making, but like to think these were done in good faith.
Anyway, I fully expect this to be shot down in flames by those on here. I am even expecting a bit of abuse. I for one enjoyed last night with my family and friends, will be there at Merchant Taylors on monday and tuesday and am fully expecting to enjoy the rest of the season, despite this terrible episode. I am hoping there are plenty on here who feel they can do the same
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