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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 10:58:24 GMT
Shane Warne puts the boot in on Twitter: <I just read Moores say ENG are improving ! Are you serious ? Ridiculous, I would demand a huge change asap if I was an England supporter !!!> <Also, just read Cook say that the team had a good tour !!! Are the Capt & Coach on the same planet as everyone else ! Honesty please...> Shane, I am sure, only has the best interests of English cricket at heart! |
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Post by howardh on May 4, 2015 11:27:40 GMT
Before you all start throwing the baby out with the bath water with your "I told you so" comments, just take a look at the current round of County Championship matches involving 12 counties. Now look at how many English qualified spinners are playing. Now name one that is full of potential to play for his country.
Something very similar happened with Premiership rugby about 9 years ago when on one particular weekend only 2 of the 12 fly-halves that played were English qualified.
We need to look at what we are trying to produce at national level, then realise that no number of changes of Directors of Cricket, Selectors, Coaches and Captains is going to change this particular problem.
Who agreed to 17 one-dayers on the trot?
Who agreed to 17 5(!)- day test matches in a calendar year?
We need to get our bowlers and batsmen match fit by playing on a regular basis in English conditions, especially at the start of the County season, not cooped up in distant hotels and in "theory meetings". This W Indies tour should not have taken place at this time. Imagine the anticipation of the tests against NZ (why are we playing them at this time of year? - oh yes, money) and Australia with batsmen and bowlers finding some sort of form.
Hackneyed - no; honest - yes.
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Post by hhsussex on May 4, 2015 11:37:20 GMT
Before you all start throwing the baby out with the bath water with your "I told you so" comments, just take a look at the current round of County Championship matches involving 12 counties. Now look at how many English qualified spinners are playing. Now name one that is full of potential to play for his country. Something very similar happened with Premiership rugby about 9 years ago when on one particular weekend only 2 of the 12 fly-halves that played were English qualified. We need to look at what we are trying to produce at national level, then realise that no number of changes of Directors of Cricket, Selectors, Coaches and Captains is going to change this particular problem. Who agreed to 17 one-dayers on the trot? Who agreed to 17 5(!)- day test matches in a calendar year? We need to get our bowlers and batsmen match fit by playing on a regular basis in English conditions, especially at the start of the County season, not cooped up in distant hotels and in "theory meetings". This W Indies tour should not have taken place at this time. Imagine the anticipation of the tests against NZ (why are we playing them at this time of year? - oh yes, money) and Australia with batsmen and bowlers finding some sort of form. Hackneyed - no; honest - yes. I don't disagree with you at all - see my comments here unofficialsussexccc.freeforums.net/post/9052/thread on this issue, and the effect that changes of organisation could have. The issue of over-exposure for the game and saturation scheduling is where Tom Harrison, as CEO and a media specialist, and the the new Director of Cricket, have to work closely and where it is critically important that the D of C knows exactly what his remit is from the first. Graves job is then to ensure that the strategic direction is clear from the outset, that all his senior men know what it is and work to implement it. |
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Post by Wicked Cricket on May 4, 2015 11:39:51 GMT
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Post by coverpoint on May 4, 2015 12:02:58 GMT
Australia to win 5-0.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 12:56:10 GMT
Before you all start throwing the baby out with the bath water with your "I told you so" comments, just take a look at the current round of County Championship matches involving 12 counties. Now look at how many English qualified spinners are playing. Now name one that is full of potential to play for his country. Something very similar happened with Premiership rugby about 9 years ago when on one particular weekend only 2 of the 12 fly-halves that played were English qualified. We need to look at what we are trying to produce at national level, then realise that no number of changes of Directors of Cricket, Selectors, Coaches and Captains is going to change this particular problem. Who agreed to 17 one-dayers on the trot? Who agreed to 17 5(!)- day test matches in a calendar year? We need to get our bowlers and batsmen match fit by playing on a regular basis in English conditions, especially at the start of the County season, not cooped up in distant hotels and in "theory meetings". This W Indies tour should not have taken place at this time. Imagine the anticipation of the tests against NZ (why are we playing them at this time of year? - oh yes, money) and Australia with batsmen and bowlers finding some sort of form. Hackneyed - no; honest - yes. I don't disagree with you at all - see my comments here unofficialsussexccc.freeforums.net/post/9052/thread on this issue, and the effect that changes of organisation could have. The issue of over-exposure for the game and saturation scheduling is where Tom Harrison, as CEO and a media specialist, and the the new Director of Cricket, have to work closely and where it is critically important that the D of C knows exactly what his remit is from the first. Graves job is then to ensure that the strategic direction is clear from the outset, that all his senior men know what it is and work to implement it. I think some of us do take a fundamentally different view here. In pro sport when the team is winning, then the system by definition is working. Therefore everyone knowing "exactly what his remit is from the first" is irrelevant. They've found a way of working together that is highly successful , not least because it has probably changed and mutated dramatically from the paper theories and formal job specs and is organic rather than based on an organogram. Whatever, it's working and so you leave well alone. When it is working the only decision, strategic or otherwise, that McLaurin, Clarke, Graves or whoever has to take, is working out when they need to intervene; ideally you read the signs acutely and intervene early (for example, that England were losing touch with reality under Flower was evident long before he went and he should have been moved on a year earlier, instead of the doomed, ducking-the-issue compromise of splitting Test/ODI duties between Flower and Giles and waiting for it all to implode so spectacularly in Australia). And let's take Australia. Does anyone care about the exact remit, responsibilites, lines of reporting and place in the hierarchy of Lehmann, Clarke, Sutherland, Marsh and Waugh? Of couse not, because whatever they are doing is clearly working brilliantly well - they are running the best team in the world. It only became of imporance under Mickey Arthur because it wasn't working; players were getting sent home from India for seemingly trivial offences and the wheels were coming off. England are a poor side in every format of the game. You can argue that "no number of changes of Directors of Cricket, Selectors, Coaches and Captains is going to change" that. You might be right or you might not. But leaving the personnel- and the system - unchanged is not a viable option. |
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Post by Wicked Cricket on May 4, 2015 13:28:36 GMT
What Australia proved is that appointing the right coach is paramount. Everything else is window dressing.
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Post by leedsgull on May 4, 2015 13:45:59 GMT
Apologies if this has already been mentioned but is it not a good thing for world cricket that West Indies actually won a test and drew a series? Tino Best on Test match special said that only Gayle of those West Indians currently at the IPL would merit a place in the current side. Tino was actually surprisingly insightful with his analysis of current West Indian cricket and generally optimistic regarding the future. He maintains that there is still great interest throughout the islands in cricket. So whilst lamenting England's demise how about some praise for the opposition?
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Post by hhsussex on May 4, 2015 14:05:47 GMT
Apologies if this has already been mentioned but is it not a good thing for world cricket that West Indies actually won a test and drew a series? Tino Best on Test match special said that only Gayle of those West Indians currently at the IPL would merit a place in the current side. Tino was actually surprisingly insightful with his analysis of current West Indian cricket and generally optimistic regarding the future. He maintains that there is still great interest throughout the islands in cricket. So whilst lamenting England's demise how about some praise for the opposition? Absolutely right and of course we have all become a little bit introverted and obsessed with the issue of English inadequacy rather than West Indian success. I also agree that Tino's insights were strong and vividly expressed. West Indies started poorly but grew together as a team and performed much better than the sum of their parts. Thinking back to the very pessimistic view of Viv Richards at the start of the series, about the parlous state of West Indian cricket and his own view that the biggest enemy to WI cricket was its own structure, it seems that this victory could and should have a galvanic effect on their game. That would be the best thing to happen to cricket as a whole, as an outcome from this otherwise wretched tour. |
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Post by joe on May 4, 2015 14:49:19 GMT
So what you're all now saying is that the Windies played well and have a decent test side, therefore, by definition, it would be harder for England to beat them, wouldn't it? All teams have their fat times and lean times. Windies are coming out of a lean period and England are in the middle of one!
I personally don't think that Strauss is the man for the job, is Jason Gilespie out of the frame?
We need a coach/manager with a bit about them, to inject some dynamism who will be brave enough to give the untested a test!( pardon the pun) And brave enough to get rid of the dead weights.
If you're going to lose, better to lose having exhausted all options than to say what if.
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Post by mrsdoyle on May 4, 2015 18:21:44 GMT
We'll be lucky to get nil. |
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Post by mrsdoyle on May 4, 2015 18:25:42 GMT
Whatever you think about Cook he has a point, Graves on this occasion was being disrespectful to the opposition. I like that Cook spoke out, is he finding some backbone? |
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Post by flashblade on May 4, 2015 18:42:50 GMT
Whatever you think about Cook he has a point, Graves on this occasion was being disrespectful to the opposition. I like that Cook spoke out, is he finding some backbone? I agree, mrsdoyle - my point was that it surprised me that someone as conservative/establishment as Cook was prepared to criticise his boss in public. Has his latest century given him dutch courage, I wonder? |
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Post by flashblade on May 4, 2015 19:27:54 GMT
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Post by coverpoint on May 4, 2015 20:58:51 GMT
Jumped before he got pushed! What was the point in recalling Trott? Trott should have retired from international cricket after returning from Australia. Lyth has to surely be given his opportunity now as does Rashid!
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