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Post by Wicked Cricket on Jun 25, 2016 13:21:50 GMT
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Post by joe on Jun 25, 2016 13:29:13 GMT
I note that a petition has now been signed by over 1m people asking for a rerun. Surely, not? Democracy is democracy and always in a democratic country those who lose a vote may never be happy. Democracy is a blunt instrument. The petiton very reasonably asks that there should be a 60 per cent majority based on a minimum turn-out of 75 per cent for such a major constitutional change. As set out above, this kind of 'supermajority' is in widespread democratic use around the world, including in the US. The petition has now reached 1.35 million signatures in less than 24 hours, which means it will have to be debated in Parliament. Please sign it here: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215It's an official Parliamentary website and you have to enter your name, e-mail address and postcode. You will then receive an e-mail containing a link you must click on to confirm that you wish to add your name to the petition. When you click you then get the pleasure of seeing the counter click up another vote. I was number 1,299,128 an hour ago and in the short time since I see the total has advanced to 1,368,382, so there are currently close to 70,000 people per hour or more than 1,000 per minute signing it. on edit: wirthin two minutes of posting this the counter has clicked on to 1,378,996 so it is now being signed by 5,000 people per minute. If your petition reaches a figure higher than half the voting population then maybe it can be looked at again but until then the vote is exit, fairly and democratically.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 13:50:31 GMT
If your petition reaches a figure higher than half the voting population then maybe it can be looked at again but until then the vote is exit, fairly and democratically. Factually incorrect. Parliament is legally required to look at it again when the petition passes 100,000. A few minutes ago it stood at 1,538,000 - more than 15 times higher than the threshold that triggers Parliamentary consideration. It has crashed at least twice this afternoon due to being unable to cope with the demand. Please add your name when it's back up and running! I'd say it will pass two million today and will have to be debated by Parliament - where around 500 of the 650 MPs back 'remain', of course. Why is this important? Well ask yourself : what happens when the leave voters find they were swindled? As Polly Toynbee points out, "the 'foreigners' will still be there. No new homes, hospital appointments or nursery places freed up by a migrant exodus. Hours after the count Conservative MEP Daniel Hannan admitted there was no £350m a week to spend on the NHS, not for years – and Farage regrets that pledge was ever made. When leavers find there’s no money and no exodus, that it was all lies, where does their wrath turn next? The pound and markets will be weaker, Scotland likely to depart, and little England’s voice and influence slowly shrinking." Buyers’ remorse will set in. And with 48% voting against this national self-harm, it only takes a few leavers to change their minds to shift the mood. So let's keep up the pressure : sign the petition and tell everyone else you know who voted 'remain' about it.
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Post by coverpoint on Jun 25, 2016 13:54:40 GMT
Yes we did and unlike the general election, where we are still using the first past the post system, this was a democratic decision.
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Post by coverpoint on Jun 25, 2016 14:00:03 GMT
If your petition reaches a figure higher than half the voting population then maybe it can be looked at again but until then the vote is exit, fairly and democratically. Factually incorrect. Parliament is legally required to look at it again when the petition passes 100,000. A few minutes ago it stood at 1,538,000 - more than 15 times higher than the threshold that triggers Parliamentary consideration. It has crashed at least twice this afternoon due to being unable to cope with the demand. Please add your name when it's back up and running! I'd say it will pass two million today and will have to be debated by Parliament - where around 500 of the 650 MPs back 'remain', of course. Why is this important? Well ask yourself : what happens when the leave voters find they were swindled? As Polly Toynbee points out, "the 'foreigners' will still be there. No new homes, hospital appointments or nursery places freed up by a migrant exodus. Hours after the count Conservative MEP Daniel Hannan admitted there was no £350m a week to spend on the NHS, not for years – and Farage regrets that pledge was ever made. When leavers find there’s no money and no exodus, that it was all lies, where does their wrath turn next? The pound and markets will be weaker, Scotland likely to depart, and little England’s voice and influence slowly shrinking." Buyers’ remorse will set in. And with 48% voting against this national self-harm, it only takes a few leavers to change their minds to shift the mood. So let's keep up the pressure : sign the petition and tell everyone else you know who voted 'remain' about it. People are not stupid. There will be no savings from being out of the EU until we are officially out of the EU and that won't be for at least two years. I don't think there should be a re-vote under any circumstances. The public has spoken. Democracy has taken place. 1.5 million is still only 4.5% of the total vote and means 95.5% haven't signed. Daniel Hannan was saying this throughout the campaign. He was the only person from either side who has told the truth throughout the campaign. It was his excellent speech and not Farage, Gove or Johnson which persuaded to vote leave. This guy has worked as an MEP for over 25 years and if there is anyone who knows how the EU works and the problems of being part of it and the benefits of getting out it's him. As for the 650 MP's all that proves is how out of touch with the rest of the country the majority of the political elite are.
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Post by joe on Jun 25, 2016 14:08:16 GMT
Yes, thank you, I know the legal requirements. I was making the point that just because the remain voters didn't like the result doesn't mean that it's wrong! It was a fair and democratic vote, the majority won.
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Post by flashblade on Jun 25, 2016 14:10:01 GMT
Factually incorrect. Parliament is legally required to look at it again when the petition passes 100,000. A few minutes ago it stood at 1,538,000 - more than 15 times higher than the threshold that triggers Parliamentary consideration. It has crashed at least twice this afternoon due to being unable to cope with the demand. Please add your name when it's back up and running! I'd say it will pass two million today and will have to be debated by Parliament - where around 500 of the 650 MPs back 'remain', of course. Why is this important? Well ask yourself : what happens when the leave voters find they were swindled? As Polly Toynbee points out, "the 'foreigners' will still be there. No new homes, hospital appointments or nursery places freed up by a migrant exodus. Hours after the count Conservative MEP Daniel Hannan admitted there was no £350m a week to spend on the NHS, not for years – and Farage regrets that pledge was ever made. When leavers find there’s no money and no exodus, that it was all lies, where does their wrath turn next? The pound and markets will be weaker, Scotland likely to depart, and little England’s voice and influence slowly shrinking." Buyers’ remorse will set in. And with 48% voting against this national self-harm, it only takes a few leavers to change their minds to shift the mood. So let's keep up the pressure : sign the petition and tell everyone else you know who voted 'remain' about it. People are not stupid. There will be no savings from being out of the EU until we are officially out of the EU and that won't be for at least two years. I don't think there should be a revote under any circumstances. The public has spoken. Democracy has taken place. 1.5 million is still only 4.5% of the total vote. Daniel Hannan was saying this throughout the campaign. He was the only person from either side who has told the truth throughout the campaign. As for the 650 MP's all that proves is how out of touch with the rest of the country the majority of the political elite are. Wow, just listen to Hannan yesterday. He's now saying that there will continue to be free movement of labour between Britain and the EU. No wonder the interviewer is holding his head in his hands!! www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/evan-davis-newsnight-bbc-daniel-hannan-mep-eu-referendum-brexit_uk_576e2967e4b08d2c56393241
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Post by coverpoint on Jun 25, 2016 14:11:07 GMT
People are not stupid. There will be no savings from being out of the EU until we are officially out of the EU and that won't be for at least two years. I don't think there should be a revote under any circumstances. The public has spoken. Democracy has taken place. 1.5 million is still only 4.5% of the total vote. Daniel Hannan was saying this throughout the campaign. He was the only person from either side who has told the truth throughout the campaign. As for the 650 MP's all that proves is how out of touch with the rest of the country the majority of the political elite are. Wow, just listen to Hannan yesterday. He's now saying that there will continue to be free movement of labour between Britain and the EU. No wonder the interviewer is holding his head in his hands!! www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/evan-davis-newsnight-bbc-daniel-hannan-mep-eu-referendum-brexit_uk_576e2967e4b08d2c56393241At no stage has he said there would no immigration. This is about controlling immigration. You can't do that by being in the EU.
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Post by flashblade on Jun 25, 2016 14:12:08 GMT
At no stage has he said there would no immigration. This is about controlling immigration. You can't do that by being in the EU. How can you have free movement if you're 'controlling' immigration?
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Post by coverpoint on Jun 25, 2016 14:14:15 GMT
At no stage has he said there would no immigration. This is about controlling immigration. You can't do that by being in the EU. How can you have free movement if you're 'controlling' immigration? I don't want free movement. Free movement allows anyone including terrorists into this country. We need to know who is coming in and out of this country. Only then can you guarantee national security. However, I assume he means free movement with the use of visas as you would need for Australia and USA.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 14:17:26 GMT
Yes, thank you, I know the legal requirements. I was making the point that just because the remain voters didn't like the result doesn't mean that it's wrong! It was a fair and democratic vote, the majority won. Let's have a referendum on capital punishment, then. We all know what the result of that would be. Would you say the same then? We have a system of representative rather than plebiscite democracy for a very good reason...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 14:26:20 GMT
Even the abysmal Corbyn accepts that the decision is made. The goalposts can't be moved now. Cameron promised a referendum in his manifesto just like the changes in inheritance tax, believing the policies would be popular but expecting the Lib Dems to veto both. He got caught out and now we're paying the price for his ineptitude.
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Post by flashblade on Jun 25, 2016 14:32:08 GMT
Even the abysmal Corbyn accepts that the decision is made. The goalposts can't be moved now. Cameron promised a referendum in his manifesto just like the changes in inheritance tax, believing the policies would be popular but expecting the Lib Dems to veto both. He got caught out and now we're paying the price for his ineptitude. Probably because the Abysmal Corbyn is secretly pleased with the result. No party leader (even Corbyn) would have campaigned so half heartedly if he believed what he was campaigning for.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 14:41:19 GMT
How can you have free movement if you're 'controlling' immigration? I don't want free movement. Free movement allows anyone including terrorists into this country. We need to know who is coming in and out of this country. Only then can you guarantee national security. You've lost me there. Terrorists are not allowed into the country under a system of free movement, visas or ar anything else are they? Terrorists can only be stopped at UK borders by intelligence gathering shared with our EU partners. How do you imagine your 'controlled immigration' guarantees national security - by filtering out those who enter 'terrorism' on their application under 'purpose of visit'? The "guarantee" of national security you talk about is a lie, like every one of Boris's other dodgy claims that are already unravelling within 24 hours of the result. Things are going to get very nasty when the Brexit voters among the dispossesed underclass in Sunderland, Hartlepool etc. discover that Boris and Farage lied to them just as they were lied to by Thatcher and Blair.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 14:47:45 GMT
Even the abysmal Corbyn accepts that the decision is made. The goalposts can't be moved now. Cameron promised a referendum in his manifesto just like the changes in inheritance tax, believing the policies would be popular but expecting the Lib Dems to veto both. He got caught out and now we're paying the price for his ineptitude. Probably because the Abysmal Corbyn is secretly pleased with the result. No party leader (even Corbyn) would have campaigned so half heartedly if he believed what he was campaigning for. To be fair to Corbyn, he didn't indulge in the 'fear' tactics employed by Cameron and Osborne or peddle outright lies like Farage and Johnson and Gove. His scepticism about the EU but his balanced conclusion that working people are still better served by being in that out was actually a more reasoned and nuanced position than the hysteria displayed by those on both sides I've named above. It's quite ironic that Cameron has to go becuase he was too strident in a losing cause and people are calling for Corbyn to go for not having been strident enough!
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