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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 14:48:33 GMT
A lot of people made their own minds up based on personal experience. I heard someone say she voted to leave because she couldn't get a seat on a train. That was always going to be the danger with this unnecessary referendum.
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Post by coverpoint on Jun 25, 2016 14:51:35 GMT
A lot of people made their own minds up based on personal experience. I heard someone say she voted to leave because she couldn't get a seat on a train. That was always going to be the danger with this unnecessary referendum. She was lucky the train even arrived!
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Post by deepfineleg on Jun 25, 2016 14:56:23 GMT
Just some factual comments to make about this debate, given that this has been the nastiest, lying, cynical campaign I have ever experienced, and that attitude, and the revulsion to it, has certainly contributed to the way that votes have been cast. "The public in all parts of the country spoke with only London, Scotland and North Ireland voting to remain." - coverpoint unofficialsussexccc.freeforums.net/thread/689/eu-vote#ixzz4CaAyeHkYThe public in Brighton and Mid Sussex, to localise it to people likely to read this forum, voted to remain. The public in, for example, Manchester, Newcastle, Norwich, Cambridge, Cardiff, Winchester and Wirral voted to remain. What emerges is not a simplistic statement of them and us but a complex pattern of local issues, specific economics and cultural dynamics. Do not repeat the mistake of painting black and white now, when there is a wealth of problems to be negotiated. "Cameron did all he could to make sure remain won by lowering the voting age to 16 (you can vote, but you can't drive, smoke or drink and can't leave school)" coverpoint unofficialsussexccc.freeforums.net/thread/689/eu-vote#ixzz4CaDxm7aP Well actually no: that is precisely the point that he did not do so at this referendum, although it was in place for the (first) Scottish referendum. The voting intentions of that cohort are pretty well known and those in the 18-24 group, according to a yougov survey, claimed that 75% voted for Remain. It may come to be seen as a major error that the 16 and 17 year olds were excluded - certainly it seems so to them. I hadn't noticed that facts formed much part of the leave campaign
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Post by coverpoint on Jun 25, 2016 14:58:05 GMT
I don't want free movement. Free movement allows anyone including terrorists into this country. We need to know who is coming in and out of this country. Only then can you guarantee national security. You've lost me there. Terrorists are not allowed into the country under a system of free movement, visas or ar anything else are they? Terrorists can only be stopped at UK borders by intelligence gathering shared with our EU partners. How do you imagine your 'controlled immigration' guarantees national security - by filtering out those who enter 'terrorism' on their application under 'purpose of visit'? The "guarantee" of national security you talk about is a lie, like every one of Boris's other dodgy claims that are already unravelling within 24 hours of the result. Things are going to get very nasty when the Brexit voters among the dispossesed underclass in Sunderland, Hartlepool etc. discover that Boris and Farage lied to them just as they were lied to by Thatcher and Blair. Being in the EU didn't stop Paris from having a terrorist attack. We need to do everything possible to stop them from entering the country. Unlike mainland Europe we are an island and should have proper border checks in place for everyone.
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Post by deepfineleg on Jun 25, 2016 15:06:03 GMT
The exact relationship between UK and EU has yet to be determined. Clearly at least 48% would presumably support an EEA type relationship; I'm sure some of the 52% support a free market too. Do we have a vote on this?
Anyway at 5pm there is a Leave v Remain football match. Should we accept that as the final decision?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 15:06:09 GMT
You've lost me there. Terrorists are not allowed into the country under a system of free movement, visas or ar anything else are they? Terrorists can only be stopped at UK borders by intelligence gathering shared with our EU partners. How do you imagine your 'controlled immigration' guarantees national security - by filtering out those who enter 'terrorism' on their application under 'purpose of visit'? The "guarantee" of national security you talk about is a lie, like every one of Boris's other dodgy claims that are already unravelling within 24 hours of the result. Things are going to get very nasty when the Brexit voters among the dispossesed underclass in Sunderland, Hartlepool etc. discover that Boris and Farage lied to them just as they were lied to by Thatcher and Blair. Being in the EU didn't stop Paris from having a terrorist attack. We need to do everything possible to stop them from entering the country. Unlike mainland Europe we are an island and should have proper border checks in place for everyone. We've had ample opportunity to put adequate border checks in place, but shown little desire or ability to achieve it. Theresa May may be a talented politician, but so many of them you have to question her credentials to run a state department.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 15:12:19 GMT
We should have proper border checks in place for everyone.... and indeed we do. Why would anyone claim that we do not? I haven't heard even Boris peddle that particular lie. Have you never travelled abroad and had to queue for an hour to get back into your own country at passport control at Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton or Stansted?
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Post by coverpoint on Jun 25, 2016 15:14:31 GMT
Being in the EU didn't stop Paris from having a terrorist attack. We need to do everything possible to stop them from entering the country. Unlike mainland Europe we are an island and should have proper border checks in place for everyone. We've had ample opportunity to put adequate border checks in place, but shown little desire or ability to achieve it. Theresa May may be a talented politician, but so many of them you have to question her credentials to run a state department. I would agree with you about Theresa May. However, is part of the problem the fact that they haven't had any previous commercial experience? Looking at the trade negotiations I hope they are going to employ lawyers and businessman with actual experience of such negotiation as I don't trust any of those within the Leave camp to do this successfully.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 15:15:49 GMT
How many cars are searched at Calais?
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Post by coverpoint on Jun 25, 2016 15:16:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 15:18:08 GMT
We've had ample opportunity to put adequate border checks in place, but shown little desire or ability to achieve it. Theresa May may be a talented politician, but so many of them you have to question her credentials to run a state department. I would agree with you about Theresa May. However, is part of the problem the fact that they haven't had any previous commercial experience? Looking at the trade negotiations I hope they are going to employ lawyers and businessman with actual experience of such negotiation as I don't trust any of those within the Leave camp to do this successfully. Well of course, they are career politicians. The only plus point is that their European counterparts are likely to be equally incompetent.
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Post by flashblade on Jun 25, 2016 15:25:05 GMT
Probably because the Abysmal Corbyn is secretly pleased with the result. No party leader (even Corbyn) would have campaigned so half heartedly if he believed what he was campaigning for. To be fair to Corbyn, he didn't indulge in the 'fear' tactics employed by Cameron and Osborne or peddle outright lies like Farage and Johnson and Gove. His scepticism about the EU but his balanced conclusion that working people are still better served by being in that out was actually a more reasoned and nuanced position than the hysteria displayed by those on both sides I've named above. It's quite ironic that Cameron has to go becuase he was too strident in a losing cause and people are calling for Corbyn to go for not having been strident enough!There is a happy medium - it's called enthusiastic. It's what most campaigners do, but Corbyn didn't.
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Post by flashblade on Jun 25, 2016 15:27:00 GMT
A lot of people made their own minds up based on personal experience. I heard someone say she voted to leave because she couldn't get a seat on a train. That was always going to be the danger with this unnecessary referendum. She was lucky the train even arrived! But dangerous to invite people to change the constitution on the basis of their mood on polling day!
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Post by flashblade on Jun 25, 2016 15:29:42 GMT
This thread is far more interesting (and popular) than the one on the current match at Arundel.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 15:31:30 GMT
How many cars are searched at Calais? What are they supposed to be searching for - a couple of Syrian refugees in the glove compartment and a family of illegal Somali immigrants in the boot??? Following the Brexit vote the searches of vehicles which were conducted at Calais will now have to be conducted at Dover.
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