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Post by jonboy on Jun 10, 2017 8:07:11 GMT
I think there has been crossed wires here. Maybe CP is talking about the immediate future, and I concur, let the youngsters take up the slack. Next season though, if we are without Philander, Magoffin and Shahzad, then I firmly believe we will need to add one more experienced seamer to the group. We currently have 10 front line seamers, plus Mills (T20) and that is probably a couple too many. However, 7 is not enough, especially if 5 of them are relatively inexperienced. I'm not sure if any of the academy seamers will be ready to step up, so we will need to bring one in from the outside. Surely 8 seamers would provide the five youngsters with ample opportunities. By the Academy seamers I assume you are referring to Garton, Sakande and Whittingham rather than any current Academy prospects? If it is the latter the only seamer who finishes in the Academy this year is Ben Twine. Tom Haines (Batsman), Nick Oxley (Spinner and improving batsman) and Joe Billings (Wicketkeeper) are the others to finish in the Academy in 2017. Even if Magoffin, Philander and Shahzad don't return in 2018 and assuming you discount Mills because he is only going to play T20 cricket I see no need to add more than one experienced seamer to the squad as we will have seven seamers (Archer, Garton, Jordan, Robinson, Sakande, Whittingham and Wiese). Agreed, one would be sufficient |
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Post by jonboy on Jun 10, 2017 8:09:33 GMT
Back to this game We need to wrap this up quickly this morning as both these two are capable of scoring big. Chappell at nine, is actually more of a batsman than a bowler, something that we should be able to exploit when we get in
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Post by liquidskin on Jun 10, 2017 8:32:23 GMT
It isn't Garton and Whittingham fault they weren't born in South Africa or the West Indies. Archer is the example of what a Sussex youngster should do He put in the performances, big performances, for the seconds, which earned him a place in the first eleven. He took that chance with both hands and now he's a regular pick. That's what the other youngsters have to aim for. The odd three wicket haul for the seconds hardly demands inclusion does it I don't think Archer took a five wicket haul for the seconds. I don't think Briggs has either and I doubt Wiese would if he was there. I believe Archer regularly took two or three wickets, scored a few 30s and 40s over a dozen or so games and was judged to be good enough and ready by the people watching closely. And rightly so.
Never mind second eleven stats, in the first eleven last season both Garton and Whittingham matched up statistically with Archer. Anyway, if we're happy to struggle to bowl sides out then carry on playing two defensive containing bowlers. If we wanna win more games, bowl wicket taking bowlers.
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Post by jonboy on Jun 10, 2017 8:55:50 GMT
Archer is the example of what a Sussex youngster should do He put in the performances, big performances, for the seconds, which earned him a place in the first eleven. He took that chance with both hands and now he's a regular pick. That's what the other youngsters have to aim for. The odd three wicket haul for the seconds hardly demands inclusion does it I don't think Archer took a five wicket haul for the seconds. I don't think Briggs has either and I doubt Wiese would if he was there. I believe Archer regularly took two or three wickets, scored a few 30s and 40s over a dozen or so games and was judged to be good enough and ready by the people watching closely. And rightly so.
Never mind second eleven stats, in the first eleven last season both Garton and Whittingham matched up statistically with Archer. Anyway, if we're happy to struggle to bowl sides out then carry on playing two defensive containing bowlers. If we wanna win more games, bowl wicket taking bowlers.
Whichever way you look at it, you perform and take your chances, and you'll eventually get your rewards. I'm not on a downer about any of our younger bowlers, they're progressing nicely. Do I think they should all be playing in the first eleven? No, not yet, though I'm more than happy for any one of them to come in and do a job. Garton was called up for the current match, and if he's fit, I would expect him to be selected when Philander departs, probably ahead of Shahzad. That's fair enough, and Shahzad and Robinson both responded in the right way, by putting in performances for the seconds yesterday against Kent. I really don't think there is an issue re the young bowlers, I'm really optimistic that we are doing the right thing here |
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Jun 10, 2017 9:48:40 GMT
Adrian Harms tweets that David Wiese may not be bowling today due to a stomach strain. Let's hope he has
recovered sufficiently for the second innings.
Adrian Harms‏ Twitter
Overcast but dry in Leicester not sure if @david_Wiese @sussexccc will bowl today after stomach strain
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Post by liquidskin on Jun 10, 2017 9:53:48 GMT
Never play them, no issue? Play defensive bowlers, no issue? We have a different outlook JB. We've been doing the wrong thing and same thing under two different coaches for about the last five years, which is why we're struggling to bowl out Leicestershire in division deux.
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Post by jonboy on Jun 10, 2017 10:40:13 GMT
Never play them, no issue? Play defensive bowlers, no issue? We have a different outlook JB. We've been doing the wrong thing and same thing under two different coaches for about the last five years, which is why we're struggling to bowl out Leicestershire in division deux. That's a recruitment issue, and you know my feelings about that |
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Post by flashblade on Jun 10, 2017 14:18:27 GMT
134 for 6, and still need 57 more runs to avoid the follow-on - - at Leicester.
Would those whose glass is half full care to comment?
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Jun 10, 2017 14:25:55 GMT
Just got in to discover a familiar Sussex CCC batting pattern. What must the bowlers be thinking after bowling their hearts out? And
what is Yardy doing to instil some mental resolve in to our batters?
Let's hope we see a stand between Jordan and Wiese to at least get us past the follow on total. Zebedee has more consistency.
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Post by joe on Jun 10, 2017 14:41:45 GMT
... here we go again
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Post by coverpoint on Jun 10, 2017 15:34:30 GMT
I knew when Davis was quoted as saying "we can beat anyone" we would lose the next match. When is Davis going to stop talking bs? Our performances away from home has been an utter disgrace and he should carry the can. People are blaming the batsman but to let this Leicestershire team score 340 isn't great. Our batsmen should have gone to Specsavers. If you feed Cosgrove pies he will eat them!
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Post by Wicked Cricket on Jun 10, 2017 16:21:13 GMT
Can a tenth wicket partnership save our blushes? Philander a South African fast bowler showing the Sussex batsmen how to bat. Now the second highest scorer; and after this game VP leaves us to join the Proteus.  edit: Philander is the highest Sussex scorer with 69* and the tenth wicket partnership with Briggs is presently worth 75 runs, the highest of the innings. At close, 276-9, trailing by 64 runs. www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/scorecard/ECKO41334 |
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Post by joe on Jun 10, 2017 19:52:12 GMT
All eleven of the players in this team can be match winners on their day, unfortunately they can't seem to do it on the same day with any consistency. There's always one bowler who fires ( usually Archer ) and one batter who gets runs but rarely is there a whole team performance. There are 6 playing today who are,or have been, internationals, we should be walking this division with our eyes closed.
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Post by jonboy on Jun 10, 2017 19:58:02 GMT
All eleven of the players in this team can be match winners on their day, unfortunately they can't seem to do it on the same day with any consistency. There's always one bowler who fires ( usually Archer ) and one batter who gets runs but rarely is there a whole team performance. There are 6 playing today who are,or have been, internationals, we should be walking this division with our eyes closed. That is simply not good enough. It's been happening for a few seasons now, and we're not talking about inexperienced youngsters here If anything, the inexperienced youngster, Archer, is actually the only consistent one |
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Post by leedsmartlet on Jun 10, 2017 20:22:30 GMT
Fat chance, not at Sussex. For years now we've preferred to draft in average but experienced bowlers from all over the world rather than give the opportunity to local youth, and it's pathetic. After Philander leaves our strongest attack will be the three above plus Jordan and Beer instead of Briggs too but that doesn't fit in with our safety first negative containing policy.
I wouldn't wanna be a young home-grown player making his way at Sussex, especially a bowler. Garton barely got a look in for our dire one-day side yet he's good enough for a Lions side that would tonk us ten times out of ten. Both Garton and Whittingham had good seasons last year but where are they now. I know where I'd be, on the phone to other counties.
Disagree with you on many counts. 1. The "average but experienced bowlers from all over the world" you refer to, I assume you mean Philander (497 FC wickets at 21) who is an accomplished test opening bowler who can bat at number 8 at for South Africa and Wiese (258 FC Wickets at 27.5) who is a former South African one day all rounder who understands and reads the game well. 2. Our "negative containing policy" is entirely untrue, generally we've been playing our best 5 bowlers (regardless of make up) and using fairly attacking fields and tactics. One example of this was to enforce the follow on against Worcestershire after over a day in the field. Also, it seems we're likely to end up drawing 0 out of the first 6 championship games, hardly negative. 3. Garton played 4 out of the 8 one day cup games plus the SA match, hardly barely getting a look in. He also broke his hand during the campaign so could have played more if he didn't pick up the injury. 4. Our "dire" one day side won half of the games and were in with a chance of qualifying until it rained at Southampton 5. Garton is progressing well and being picked for the England Lions should be seen as success for Sussex's home-grown system, not a criticism. 6. Whittingham, whilst being a bowler of clear potential, has failed to make the most of his chances. Against Notts he bowled 10 overs 1-88 and is now injured after choosing to play for Scotland, which should be welcomed but will understandably affect his opportunities for Sussex. I understand that our start to the season has been disappointing and frustrating but your arguments here do not add up. |
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