|
|
Post by mrsdoyle on Sept 6, 2023 21:02:12 GMT
Sounds like Farbrace has caught onto what has been said on here on and off for the last couple of years, you can’t win anything with kids! Now they are on notice, which is good, as he says constantly failing with the bat or getting whacked to the boundary is not doing them any good.
|
|
|
|
Post by yikemardy on Sept 6, 2023 21:28:34 GMT
I agree interesting post-match interview. Farbrace can't be criticised for his honesty. From he was saying, I see this as a crossroads. Either we ship out three players and get three solid ones as replacements or things won't improve. Whether he stays or not without that backing is, of course, pure speculation. One of the most difficult problems is that whilst the several batsmen have progressed over the last two years (although one or two have gone backwards), none of the young bowlers have risen above the others. There will be need to be some tough decisions and some astute recruitment. It could be an exciting or a disappointing winter. Three players? You're joking aren't you? Atkins - Never fit and never consistent. Goodbye. Carson - Jury still out on him. Seems to have gone backwards. Clark - Plenty of opportunities in all formats and isn't consistent enough. Get rid. Coles - Improved this season but still yet to be totally convinced. Steel would be a huge upgrade. Crocombe - Get gone. Garton - Seems to be fit for everything except playing for Sussex. Probably on big money. Wouldn't be upset at all if he went. Hunt - Not good enough. Goodbye. Ibrahim - What's happened to him? Definitely potential there but needs to start showing it. Lenham - Where is he? Not good enough? Another one who can go, no problem. Mills - Can't seem to play matches in a tight schedule, always complaining about something. Another one who I wouldn't be upset if he went. Tear - Not kicked on from the end of last season where he did show some promise. Off as well. Ward - Needed a run at the top of the order in T20 to really prove himself. Should be putting him on a white ball contract. Kirtley - Everyone who he works with seems to regress. A brilliant player for us, but a dreadful coach. Get rid. Andrew - I surely needn't explain. I want a proper clear out. Moving aside just a couple of players and replacing them with another set of 38 year olds will not do the job. Most of those you want out are under contract unfortunately |
|
|
|
Post by sponge on Sept 7, 2023 8:14:03 GMT
Three players? You're joking aren't you? Atkins - Never fit and never consistent. Goodbye. Carson - Jury still out on him. Seems to have gone backwards. Clark - Plenty of opportunities in all formats and isn't consistent enough. Get rid. Coles - Improved this season but still yet to be totally convinced. Steel would be a huge upgrade. Crocombe - Get gone. Garton - Seems to be fit for everything except playing for Sussex. Probably on big money. Wouldn't be upset at all if he went. Hunt - Not good enough. Goodbye. Ibrahim - What's happened to him? Definitely potential there but needs to start showing it. Lenham - Where is he? Not good enough? Another one who can go, no problem. Mills - Can't seem to play matches in a tight schedule, always complaining about something. Another one who I wouldn't be upset if he went. Tear - Not kicked on from the end of last season where he did show some promise. Off as well. Ward - Needed a run at the top of the order in T20 to really prove himself. Should be putting him on a white ball contract. Kirtley - Everyone who he works with seems to regress. A brilliant player for us, but a dreadful coach. Get rid. Andrew - I surely needn't explain. I want a proper clear out. Moving aside just a couple of players and replacing them with another set of 38 year olds will not do the job. Most of those you want out are under contract unfortunately This is where Farbrace needs Andrew and Co's backing. He must be given the budget to acquire his new players.In the meantime those under contract who are not in the 1s need to show, via the 2s, that they should be given opportunities. Otherwise lend them out if possible or don't renew the contracts. We should then have a decent and competitive 1s and 2s. |
|
|
|
Post by therealab1 on Sept 7, 2023 9:10:31 GMT
The critique of Coles is just plan ridiculous. averaging over 33 when he's only turned 19 this year.
Things will improve and we will sign two or 3 more but they have to be quality not just experienced.
|
|
|
|
Post by squarepoint on Sept 7, 2023 11:11:31 GMT
The critique of Coles is just plan ridiculous. averaging over 33 when he's only turned 19 this year. Things will improve and we will sign two or 3 more but they have to be quality not just experienced. I fully agree Therea. It’s also ludicrous to be so dismissive of Ibrahim, Tear and Lenham, all of whom have only just turned 19. At any other county they would have been progressing quietly in the second X1. When things are going badly it’s always easy to say ‘kick everyone out’ but then what? There’s not an endless conveyor belt of top players queuing up to play for us. Some players doubtless do deserve to be released but a wholesale cull in a fit of pique would hardly make us attractive to new players! I just hope Farbrace has enough contacts to entice at least a couple of decent, experienced cricketers in the close season. Although I’m not qualified to judge Kirtley’s coaching of the bowlers, the outcomes suggest he’s a prime candidate for replacement too. |
|
|
|
Post by therealab1 on Sept 7, 2023 11:17:53 GMT
The critique of Coles is just plan ridiculous. averaging over 33 when he's only turned 19 this year. Things will improve and we will sign two or 3 more but they have to be quality not just experienced. I fully agree Therea. It’s also ludicrous to be so dismissive of Ibrahim, Tear and Lenham, all of whom have only just turned 19. At any other county they would have been progressing quietly in the second X1. When things are going badly it’s always easy to say ‘kick everyone out’ but then what? There’s not an endless conveyor belt of top players queuing up to play for us. Some players doubtless do deserve to be released but a wholesale cull in a fit of pique would hardly make us attractive to new players! I just hope Farbrace has enough contacts to entice at least a couple of decent, experienced cricketers in the close season. Although I’m not qualified to judge Kirtley’s coaching of the bowlers, the outcomes suggest he’s a prime candidate for replacement too. Exactly, picking out out problems is easy finding the solution is the hard part. The clamour for change last year was frustrating to read particularly as a lot of it was without any knowledge of individuals job roles. Now theyre blaming the players. Like you say to pick out the real young ones is very odd. These boys should be given 2 or 3 years to develop their game in a strong 2nd XI and we dont have that. Chris Wright will make the world of difference but we need a lot more experience. Ideally from a winning background. |
|
|
|
Post by mrsdoyle on Sept 7, 2023 11:54:44 GMT
The critique of Coles is just plan ridiculous. averaging over 33 when he's only turned 19 this year. Things will improve and we will sign two or 3 more but they have to be quality not just experienced. More often than Coles has come into bat when the ‘senior’ pros have chucked their wickets away or otherwise got the team in dire straits. He often scores runs when they are needed most. |
|
|
|
Post by yikemardy on Sept 7, 2023 12:37:36 GMT
The critique of Coles is just plan ridiculous. averaging over 33 when he's only turned 19 this year. Things will improve and we will sign two or 3 more but they have to be quality not just experienced. I fully agree Therea. It’s also ludicrous to be so dismissive of Ibrahim, Tear and Lenham, all of whom have only just turned 19. At any other county they would have been progressing quietly in the second X1. When things are going badly it’s always easy to say ‘kick everyone out’ but then what? There’s not an endless conveyor belt of top players queuing up to play for us. Some players doubtless do deserve to be released but a wholesale cull in a fit of pique would hardly make us attractive to new players! I just hope Farbrace has enough contacts to entice at least a couple of decent, experienced cricketers in the close season. Although I’m not qualified to judge Kirtley’s coaching of the bowlers, the outcomes suggest he’s a prime candidate for replacement too. Agree the panning of Coles and a few of the others is over the top. Where do you draw the line though, regarding the futures of the younger players? We can’t hoard them all . If we are to progress tough calls will have to be made. And tough calls doesn’t mean just saying goodbye to Jamie Atkins! Has Lenham really done enough to stay? Does Ward offer enough at white ball? Is Crocombe ever going to take many wickets? Have all of Foreman, L-C and Tear done enough to deserve serious consideration? should Currie go? |
|
|
|
Post by therealab1 on Sept 7, 2023 12:44:07 GMT
I fully agree Therea. It’s also ludicrous to be so dismissive of Ibrahim, Tear and Lenham, all of whom have only just turned 19. At any other county they would have been progressing quietly in the second X1. When things are going badly it’s always easy to say ‘kick everyone out’ but then what? There’s not an endless conveyor belt of top players queuing up to play for us. Some players doubtless do deserve to be released but a wholesale cull in a fit of pique would hardly make us attractive to new players! I just hope Farbrace has enough contacts to entice at least a couple of decent, experienced cricketers in the close season. Although I’m not qualified to judge Kirtley’s coaching of the bowlers, the outcomes suggest he’s a prime candidate for replacement too. Agree the panning of Coles and a few of the others is over the top. Where do you draw the line though, regarding the futures of the younger players? We can’t hoard them all . If we are to progress tough calls will have to be made. And tough calls doesn’t mean just saying goodbye to Jamie Atkins! Has Lenham really done enough to stay? Does Ward offer enough at white ball? Is Crocombe ever going to take many wickets? Have all of Foreman, L-C and Tear done enough to deserve serious consideration? should Currie go? You start at the point of saying can these guys make it? After significant investment and opportunity is Crocoombe worth a 3 year contract? Foreman has only had 2 one day games and scored 63 runs. What more do you want him to have done in those 2? |
|
|
|
Post by squarepoint on Sept 7, 2023 12:53:23 GMT
Yike that’s a judgment call for the coaching team who have to weigh up past performance, likelihood of improvement and the potential for finding better alternatives. I don’t know enough to advise on these calls, player by player.
From what I have seen, I’d say retain Ward just for T20 (if we can afford it) and give Crocombe and Hunt an opportunity under a different bowling coach before we decide.
I absolutely agree we need some player turnover. We need to set and maintain high standards but overreacting would be at least as bad as doing nothing.
|
|
j
2nd XI player
Posts: 107
|
Post by j on Sept 7, 2023 13:03:03 GMT
A lot of the replies to this shows part of the problem with this club. Too many people have become far too accepting of what we have become. There's no other county where the number of youngsters (particularly bowlers) who are not progressing would just be accepted so easily. As for a lot of these players being under contract, it's pretty much irrelevant and we as Sussex supporters should know that better than anyone given that Ben Brown was released from his final year of his contract to go and join Hampshire. Where there's a will, there's a way to get these players gone and bring in some quality and experience.
As for expectations and demanding success, just look at what happened to Chris Adams when he went to Surrey. Anyone who has read Grizz's book will know about how hostile the Surrey supporters were towards him and his staff when they were rotting in Division 2. Adams was removed when the standards slipped. Now I'm not saying for one second that what happened to Adams at Surrey should happen to Farbrace here, but the principle is the same. When you demand smart decision makers, demand good leaders and most importantly demand WINNING, eventually you will get it. Just look at how Surrey rebuilt to where they are now.
I know people will throw the finances accusation at Surrey, but there are plenty of 'non big counties' who are more than able to compete. Essex are 2nd in the championship, Somerset have just won the blast, Leicestershire are into the ODC Final, Worcestershire could go up this year and reached 2 white ball quarter finals this season. Kent have just won 2 white ball trophies. The perceived 'smaller' counties can more than compete if they have the right decision makers at the helm. Unfortunately we have a pair of vultures Andrew and Filby who run the show.
|
|
|
|
Post by therealab1 on Sept 7, 2023 13:11:28 GMT
A lot of the replies to this shows part of the problem with this club. Too many people have become far too accepting of what we have become. There's no other county where the number of youngsters (particularly bowlers) who are not progressing would just be accepted so easily. As for a lot of these players being under contract, it's pretty much irrelevant and we as Sussex supporters should know that better than anyone given that Ben Brown was released from his final year of his contract to go and join Hampshire. Where there's a will, there's a way to get these players gone and bring in some quality and experience. As for expectations and demanding success, just look at what happened to Chris Adams when he went to Surrey. Anyone who has read Grizz's book will know about how hostile the Surrey supporters were towards him and his staff when they were rotting in Division 2. Adams was removed when the standards slipped. Now I'm not saying for one second that what happened to Adams at Surrey should happen to Farbrace here, but the principle is the same. When you demand smart decision makers, demand good leaders and most importantly demand WINNING, eventually you will get it. Just look at how Surrey rebuilt to where they are now. I know people will throw the finances accusation at Surrey, but there are plenty of 'non big counties' who are more than able to compete. Essex are 2nd in the championship, Somerset have just won the blast, Leicestershire are into the ODC Final, Worcestershire could go up this year and reached 2 white ball quarter finals this season. Kent have just won 2 white ball trophies. The perceived 'smaller' counties can more than compete if they have the right decision makers at the helm. Unfortunately we have a pair of vultures Andrew and Filby who run the show. Ben Brown wasn't released he bought himself out of his contract. Jon Filby does not deserve to be called a vulture at all. I'm certainly not accepting the situation at all but i choose to acknowledge the positives in amongst the negatives. |
|
|
|
Post by yikemardy on Sept 7, 2023 13:18:08 GMT
Agree the panning of Coles and a few of the others is over the top. Where do you draw the line though, regarding the futures of the younger players? We can’t hoard them all . If we are to progress tough calls will have to be made. And tough calls doesn’t mean just saying goodbye to Jamie Atkins! Has Lenham really done enough to stay? Does Ward offer enough at white ball? Is Crocombe ever going to take many wickets? Have all of Foreman, L-C and Tear done enough to deserve serious consideration? should Currie go? You start at the point of saying can these guys make it? After significant investment and opportunity is Crocoombe worth a 3 year contract? Foreman has only had 2 one day games and scored 63 runs. What more do you want him to have done in those 2? The point I am trying to make (admittedly clumsily) is that some of the younger players who do have potential, may have to go to make way for more experienced players, and possibly the next generation of young players. Otherwise you are left with a bloated squad. Take Harry Finch - he produced some strong performances that showed potential. Eventually the club made a decision that on balance, he wasn’t up to it and he was released. this enabled someone else to have a chance. That may be where we are at with several of the squad. As an aside, not for a moment do I think Henry Crocombe warranted a three-year contract. Re Foreman, Tear, L-C, Rogers. I don’t think the club can hedge its bets on every talented young player. Only the very very best should get extended deals. That’s a judgment call for Paul Farbrace. |
|
|
|
Post by therealab1 on Sept 7, 2023 13:47:14 GMT
The 3 you mentioned should have a decent 2 XI programme to develop from rather than jumping from the academy to the first team.
We've been prolific in the loan markets for the last few seasons but this year we didnt sign one and given shortages this struck me as slightly odd, specifically Danny Lamb going to play on loan for Somerset in the ODC when surely that destination should have been ours.
|
|
|
|
Post by yikemardy on Sept 7, 2023 15:21:54 GMT
The 3 you mentioned should have a decent 2 XI programme to develop from rather than jumping from the academy to the first team. We've been prolific in the loan markets for the last few seasons but this year we didnt sign one and given shortages this struck me as slightly odd, specifically Danny Lamb going to play on loan for Somerset in the ODC when surely that destination should have been ours. Danny Lamb was dire when we played Somerset. Putting that to one side, not replacing McAndrew has been disastrous. Despite the best efforts of FHP to prop us up, the tail is too long. From 8-11 we have One number 9 and three number 11s. Danny Lamb would have slotted in at 8, which in theory would have given some much-needed balance bolstering to our line-up. |
|
