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Post by hhsussex on May 29, 2017 12:43:07 GMT
If the top three had scored a modest total between them of say 60 and this was the first innings replying to Kent's 369, it might have been a decent game of cricket. If, if, if, if....... Burgess, Wiese, Archer and Philander are performing miles better than Finch, who is averaging about 8 this season. We can't leave him there to open on Friday, can we? I don't see why Van Zyl doesn't open as he has done so for South Africa. Wright and Van Zyl need to step up rather than taking the easy option of batting at 4 and 5. Because South Africa picked Van Zyl, asteady performer at No 4, to open in Tests and he was awful, lacking the temperament to face the new ball and keep concentration. Since returning to No 4 he has gradually recovered all his old form and is now a steady, dependable, un-eyecatching accumulator of runs. Which would you rather@ to saddle him with the burden of something he has already tried and failed? Or to keep on as he is, unspectacular but valuable provided those around him supply the brio, the dash? I don't think he was a great choice as a buy-in player, whether Kolpak, offical Overseas or any other kind of acquisition, but he is starting to provide an anchor for the team, which a more imaginative coach could use to encourage his flair players - Wright, Machan and the late middle-order strokemakers - to develop their shots with confidence. We do need an opener, maybe two. I have a feeling Nash could be succumbing to the pressures of a benefit season as Goodwin did so disastrously. Wells can be pressganged back into doing it, but his long term future probably lies at 3, where he is more comfortable. A batsman's psychological state cannot so easily be reduced to "stepping up" or avoiding the "easy option". It's a bit like telling Yardy or Trott to man up. One has to accept people as they are, not as how we would like them to be, and that their talent will flow when given the right conditions. Meanwhile...some rain still expected, but probably not enough. |
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Post by coverpoint on May 29, 2017 12:51:49 GMT
I don't see why Van Zyl doesn't open as he has done so for South Africa. Wright and Van Zyl need to step up rather than taking the easy option of batting at 4 and 5. Because South Africa picked Van Zyl, asteady performer at No 4, to open in Tests and he was awful, lacking the temperament to face the new ball and keep concentration. Since returning to No 4 he has gradually recovered all his old form and is now a steady, dependable, un-eyecatching accumulator of runs. Which would you rather@ to saddle him with the burden of something he has already tried and failed? Or to keep on as he is, unspectacular but valuable provided those around him supply the brio, the dash? I don't think he was a great choice as a buy-in player, whether Kolpak, offical Overseas or any other kind of acquisition, but he is starting to provide an anchor for the team, which a more imaginative coach could use to encourage his flair players - Wright, Machan and the late middle-order strokemakers - to develop their shots with confidence. We do need an opener, maybe two. I have a feeling Nash could be succumbing to the pressures of a benefit season as Goodwin did so disastrously. Wells can be pressganged back into doing it, but his long term future probably lies at 3, where he is more comfortable. A batsman's psychological state cannot so easily be reduced to "stepping up" or avoiding the "easy option". It's a bit like telling Yardy or Trott to man up. One has to accept people as they are, not as how we would like them to be, and that their talent will flow when given the right conditions. Meanwhile...some rain still expected, but probably not enough. Expecting Finch to open is ridiculous. Wright and Van Zyl are senior players and should be stepping up. They don't want to bat there so shove the youngster there. Van Zyl was the best that was available. The benefit malaise seems to hit Nash too. |
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Post by deepfineleg on May 29, 2017 12:56:15 GMT
Well done to Burgess, Wiese, Philander and Archer to take it this far. Looks as though hhs's efforts to provoke the rain gods are helping a little too.
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Post by hhsussex on May 29, 2017 13:03:16 GMT
Well done to Burgess, Wiese, Philander and Archer to take it this far. Looks as though hhs's efforts to provoke the rain gods are helping a little too. Sadly, not enough....cue a very young Carole King
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Post by jonboy on May 29, 2017 14:16:25 GMT
Well, thanks to a spirited rearguard action, Sussex have managed to salvage some pride Lets not be fooled though, it's yet another heavy, and embarrassing defeat
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Post by hhsussex on May 29, 2017 14:21:10 GMT
In the end a heavy enough defeat and a significant one, but the significance was not that Sussex were crushed, but that this team has many talented players but lacks the binding confidence that comes from strong and imaginative leadership. The Mooores/Adams and Robninson/Adams teams had several journeymen - Montgomerie, Cottey, even Lewry and Martin-Jenkins -amongst the flashier players, but the cohesion came from a sense that each had their place and that overall everone was prized for their own contribution. Here you sense that the opposit prevails - "if he falls and the next one goes, then we cannot make much of a score" and "We didn't make a breakthrough with the new ball and it is hard to keep concentration in the field when the runs keep coming off our bowlers". It all looks like a mindset issue, and one crying out for an experienced coach to appraise calmly, on its own worth, without harking back to old traditions and remembrance of Sussex times past, to anlayse, to offer new suggestions, and to resolve,
Archer, Burgess, the young pace bowlers, Finch - not necessesarily as an opener though I think he has been made a scapegoat here - along with Jordan, Wright, Nash and Brown, are as good a team as any in either division. There is nothing that should hold them back from winning matches and trophies. The Kolpaks have actually done very well in the worst of circumstances and should not be blamed. How to move on from this is the big question, and it probably won't be resolved before the end of the season. As has been said already, coaches do not get sacked mid-season, and in any case there aren't enough matches to redress the balance. It is all about how the new management of Sussex wants to position itself for the biggest commercial and cultural challenge in its history.
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Post by jonboy on May 29, 2017 14:30:53 GMT
Because South Africa picked Van Zyl, asteady performer at No 4, to open in Tests and he was awful, lacking the temperament to face the new ball and keep concentration. Since returning to No 4 he has gradually recovered all his old form and is now a steady, dependable, un-eyecatching accumulator of runs. Which would you rather@ to saddle him with the burden of something he has already tried and failed? Or to keep on as he is, unspectacular but valuable provided those around him supply the brio, the dash? I don't think he was a great choice as a buy-in player, whether Kolpak, offical Overseas or any other kind of acquisition, but he is starting to provide an anchor for the team, which a more imaginative coach could use to encourage his flair players - Wright, Machan and the late middle-order strokemakers - to develop their shots with confidence. We do need an opener, maybe two. I have a feeling Nash could be succumbing to the pressures of a benefit season as Goodwin did so disastrously. Wells can be pressganged back into doing it, but his long term future probably lies at 3, where he is more comfortable. A batsman's psychological state cannot so easily be reduced to "stepping up" or avoiding the "easy option". It's a bit like telling Yardy or Trott to man up. One has to accept people as they are, not as how we would like them to be, and that their talent will flow when given the right conditions. Meanwhile...some rain still expected, but probably not enough. Expecting Finch to open is ridiculous. Wright and Van Zyl are senior players and should be stepping up. They don't want to bat there so shove the youngster there. Van Zyl was the best that was available. The benefit malaise seems to hit Nash too. I've said from the outset that Finch is the wrong choice to open the innings, now the experiment has to stop. Don't blame Finch, he probably put his hand up and volunteered to give it a try It hasn't worked out, so now he might get a chance in his favoured position. So where does that leave us. Nobody is pushing for a place with their performances in the seconds, save for Robson, whom I believe is not allowed to play. So with nobody prepared to step up, and not wanting to ruin young Finch's confidence, someone will have to move up the order. The obvious candidates, both having done it before, are Van Zyl and Wells, however, both are more comfortable where they are. What is obvious, and has been to some of us for a while, is we need to bring in an overseas opening bat. With only one senior opener on the staff, we probably actually need two It is a ridiculous state of affairs that we try and get by with just the one. Ditto the wicket keeping situation |
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Post by grandavefan on May 29, 2017 14:39:15 GMT
75% loss in the CC, same team give or take Wells, says that someone or somebodies are one dimensional in thinking. So far it proving unsuccessful.
I have always thought a balance attack is what Sussex need, this team does not have that. They are accommodating players based on bring overseas and salary. They need to start saying you're not earning your money, you're dropped!
2 allrouders (Both the same?) and Archer? That's 3 in my book.
The best team is not always the best!
Time to change or it's 5th or 6th Davo & Grubby and the sack I'm afraidWhy so many seamers? Is Jon Lewis picking the team? As bowling coach does he have input and does he consider spinners? I bet he does, and he doesn't. What's the point if he can't coach all bowlers?
I think he needs to be added to the list?
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Post by deepfineleg on May 29, 2017 15:04:22 GMT
...As has been said already, coaches do not get sacked mid-season, and in any case there aren't enough matches to redress the balance. But maybe enough matches to create a winning team in the second half of the season and not start from scratch next year with new staff. Of course, the right coach needs to be available. |
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Post by jonboy on May 29, 2017 15:16:00 GMT
...As has been said already, coaches do not get sacked mid-season, and in any case there aren't enough matches to redress the balance. But maybe enough matches to create a winning team in the second half of the season and not start from scratch next year with new staff. Of course, the right coach needs to be available. This ^^^^ |
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henryr
2nd XI player
Posts: 33
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Post by henryr on May 29, 2017 16:37:22 GMT
Neither thought is altogether ideal or well thought out (bank holiday beers), but when Ben Brown comes back from broken finger:
Try as an opener and Burgess continue, he's doing well with bat and gloves it seems
Or, go into the middle order, borrow the captaincy and Luke takes a break afore the T20, or opens?
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Post by wishibowledfaster on May 29, 2017 16:39:46 GMT
Considering the bloodbath that we were staring down the barrel of at least certain players are able to hold their heads high. Philander is very much showing his worth as a competitor, let alone a very talented bowler, I hope that wears off on others. Just hope some of the senior players such as Nash, Wright, and Jordan take a good long hard look at themselves, asking far too much of young Burgess, Archer and poor Finch who seems to have become the target for much of the ill feeling towards the top order. It's time for the county to make a decision regarding its direction, too many young players not being allowed to gain experience to allow for long term success, aiming for short term gains with Kolpacks have led to immediate mediocrity.
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Post by jonboy on May 29, 2017 16:47:52 GMT
Considering the bloodbath that we were staring down the barrel of at least certain players are able to hold their heads high. Philander is very much showing his worth as a competitor, let alone a very talented bowler, I hope that wears off on others. Just hope some of the senior players such as Nash, Wright, and Jordan take a good long hard look at themselves, asking far too much of young Burgess, Archer and poor Finch who seems to have become the target for much of the ill feeling towards the top order. It's time for the county to make a decision regarding its direction, too many young players not being allowed to gain experience to allow for long term success, aiming for short term gains with Kolpacks have led to immediate mediocrity. Not sure that Finch has become a scapegoat He isn't an opener, he's given it a go, and it hasn't worked out, but I think people actually admire him for putting his hand up and giving it a go. Now, for his own sake, he needs to drop back down the order This is a consequence of not signing a proper opener. Also don't really agree that youngsters have had their passage blocked. Archer, and to a lesser extent, Burgess, both have shown that if you perform regularly, you'll probably get picked. |
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Post by liquidskin on May 29, 2017 17:24:31 GMT
But maybe enough matches to create a winning team in the second half of the season and not start from scratch next year with new staff. Of course, the right coach needs to be available. This ^^^^ Although HH clearly doesn't know what a journeyman is in sporting terms - Lewry and M-J were one county men mate, he does know that coaches don't get sacked mid season in county cricket. They may walk out but it may be a first if Davis gets pushed mid season. That doesn't mean it shouldn't happen of course.
Archer has been excellent JB, much better than the Kolpaks. Burgess has to play and that he's played well is a bonus. The youngsters shouldn't be expected to play as well as 30 year old former internationals but if they do your Kolpaks aren't doing enough. Everybody knows it's a bad, desperate and short term route so the least you expect is that they are good. They're not atrocious by any stretch but are they warranting their inclusion? We may as well spend the money elsewhere and blood our own if they're only average.
We need an overseas bat, we all know that, it couldn't be more obvious. For now, recognise your weaknesses and pick the right team and right balance. Briggs is obsolete and because of that in part, so is Weise. If we play our four best bowlers, and there are no four better, with six batters and Burgess we can move forward successfully. I think Robson can play and as he is an actual opener he probably should.
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Post by joe on May 29, 2017 18:01:32 GMT
Neither thought is altogether ideal or well thought out (bank holiday beers), but when Ben Brown comes back from broken finger: Try as an opener and Burgess continue, he's doing well with bat and gloves it seems Or, go into the middle order, borrow the captaincy and Luke takes a break afore the T20, or opens? I like the idea of Ben coming back in as a batter and staying with Burgess behind the stumps. |
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